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    #76
    Originally posted by gregaquaman View Post
    I used to do security and would arrest people. So before I was placed in a position to knee ride that guy I was licensed, trained and registered.

    Otherwise the issue is scope. I think it would be basically impossible to murder 50 people at once using martial arts.

    Unless I did Krav of course.

    So say you create a super evil highly trained martial artist the police could still shoot him.
    So you admit that you were using unauthorized paramilitary techniques to brutalize Innocents.
    "No. Listen to me because I know what I'm talking about here." -- Hannibal

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      #77
      Originally posted by ghost55 View Post
      Shit dude did I drunkenly piss in your cereal or something?
      Possibly. But mostly you are just young and passionate. And actually not incorrect about your conclusions. You just are not reaching them via a good logical thought process and that sometimes leads you off in to left field for the most part.

      And that is exactly what lantern was doing in the post I responded to.
      He reaches some conclusions that are technically correct, but his thinking derives from an illogical place, as everyone's does at times, and so I thought the comparison was apt given the circumstances.

      It was not meant as a specific personal attack against you, or at least not any more than I have come to expect between the members of this forum.

      In reality, you are likely no more idiotic than the rest of us, with the possible exception of WRABBIT according to WRABBIT.

      Comment


        #78
        Originally posted by ghost55 View Post
        Wabbit is the dunning-krueger effect made flesh. I put more thought into things than I let on honestly. I'm generally just too lazy/drunk/busy to.put in the time to write out my thoughts in a coherent manner. Because that takes effort.
        Doesn't it though?

        I can give you one bit of good news. That effort DOES get easier with time. It's more like doing push-ups over and over than it is like progressively overloading your bench.
        With the possible exception that the more you put OUT the effort, the more organized and cognizant your thoughts will be, so the more you will need to write. Unfortunately, there is always more to do.
        But I believe it's worth it. Having a well though out, articulated and nuanced opinion on a controversial topic makes you seem like a fucking Jedi among the sea of people doing what they are told and following whichever leader they happen to find convenient to their emotional state.
        Politicians count on people, as a whole, being unable and unwilling to articulate a nuanced position. It makes it easier to sway them toward extremism by laying out a line of bullshit and false equivalencies that makes their insane position seem the same as your nuanced and well reasoned one.

        For example, and this is why I jumped on lantern, show me another industrialized and developed nation anywhere NEAR the size of the US that allows civilian firearms ownership the way we do?
        On the other hand, show me a restriction on that ownership that actually achieves it's stated purpose and doesn't just boil down to a monetary barrier on exercising the right of self defense?
        There MUST be a balanced, nuanced position somewhere in the middle. But good luck trying to find it without first articulating whats important to you. Which, notice, lantern never did answer my question about that.
        It is clear what's important to you, which is the right of self defense. It is also clear that you think this right more important than a government compact, thus the designation of it as a natural right.
        Quick question for you Ghost, Are there any other rights that you feel this way about?

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          #79
          We should talk about gun control in Russia next. It might give some much needed context to this thread.

          Comment


            #80
            Originally posted by AcerTempest View Post
            Doesn't it though?

            I can give you one bit of good news. That effort DOES get easier with time. It's more like doing push-ups over and over than it is like progressively overloading your bench.
            With the possible exception that the more you put OUT the effort, the more organized and cognizant your thoughts will be, so the more you will need to write. Unfortunately, there is always more to do.
            But I believe it's worth it. Having a well though out, articulated and nuanced opinion on a controversial topic makes you seem like a fucking Jedi among the sea of people doing what they are told and following whichever leader they happen to find convenient to their emotional state.
            Politicians count on people, as a whole, being unable and unwilling to articulate a nuanced position. It makes it easier to sway them toward extremism by laying out a line of bullshit and false equivalencies that makes their insane position seem the same as your nuanced and well reasoned one.

            For example, and this is why I jumped on lantern, show me another industrialized and developed nation anywhere NEAR the size of the US that allows civilian firearms ownership the way we do?
            On the other hand, show me a restriction on that ownership that actually achieves it's stated purpose and doesn't just boil down to a monetary barrier on exercising the right of self defense?
            There MUST be a balanced, nuanced position somewhere in the middle. But good luck trying to find it without first articulating whats important to you. Which, notice, lantern never did answer my question about that.
            It is clear what's important to you, which is the right of self defense. It is also clear that you think this right more important than a government compact, thus the designation of it as a natural right.
            Quick question for you Ghost, Are there any other rights that you feel this way about?
            Freedom of speech is a big one. I also believe that access to basic necessities such as food, water and healthcare are as well. Those are more affirmative rights than the right to speak freely and defend yourself however. Basically I want a society where there is enough of a safety net that the more unfortunate don't live in abject misery while at the same time the government generally leaves people alone.

            Comment


              #81
              Originally posted by Ice Hole View Post
              We should talk about gun control in Russia next. It might give some much needed context to this thread.
              I'm familiar with their gun laws. It's a step above NY/NJ/MA, but arguably worse than CA/HI/Canada. I think their developments when it comes to paradox chokes and oval bores are really neat, and potentially could have application in something like the Franklin Armory Reformation "firearms." Honestly I'm pissed about Clinton ending the importation of Russian handguns into the US. I really want an MP-412 REX.

              Comment


                #82
                A little more strict than NY/NJ (which isn't all that strict except in urban areas like NYC). Remember, NJ and NY both have pretty large hunting communities. Antigun sentiments are pretty much limited to urbanites. Outside in the "garden" part of the state it's like any other rural area. We shoot, hunt, kill, eat, repeat.

                In Russia, the police get to visit your house once a year to inspect your storage. And it's illegal to use firearms against women, believe it or not.

                Long barreled rifles are prohibited for self defense. Short barreled handguns under 500mm are also illegal.

                What you basically have is a country that specifically denies any sort of 2A rights. They don't want another Red Oktober, and they would have a big militancy problem if they allowed the kind of freedoms New Jersey and Oregon take for granted.
                Last edited by W. Rabbit; 12/16/2019 11:07am, .

                Comment


                  #83
                  Originally posted by Ice Hole View Post
                  A little more strict than NY/NJ (which isn't all that strict except in urban areas like NYC). Remember, NJ and NY both have pretty large hunting communities.

                  In Russia, the police get to visit your house once a year to inspect your storage. And it's illegal to use firearms against women, believe it or not.

                  Long barreled rifles are prohibited for self defense. Short barreled handguns under 500mm are also illegal.

                  What you basically have is a country that specifically denies any sort of 2A rights. They don't want another Red Oktober, and they would have a big militancy problem if they allowed the kind of freedoms New Jersey and Oregon take for granted.
                  A shotgun license isn't hard to get. With that license most shotguns are allowed including things like the Saiga-12. This also allows for smooth/oval bore "firearms" with paradox chokes which means that many people have AKs and SKS rifles rechambered for .366tkm and Mosin Nagant's and SVDs chambered in 9.6x53mm Lancaster. These weapons are fairly accurate, and have more capacity and "nice" features than allowed in NY and NJ. After five years of "shotgun" ownership you can also buy rifles. Few restrictions aside from not allowing machine guns. It is now difficult but possible to get a concealed carry permit. I give it a 3.6: not great, not terrible.

                  Comment


                    #84
                    Originally posted by ghost55 View Post
                    Freedom of speech is a big one. I also believe that access to basic necessities such as food, water and healthcare are as well. Those are more affirmative rights than the right to speak freely and defend yourself however. Basically I want a society where there is enough of a safety net that the more unfortunate don't live in abject misery while at the same time the government generally leaves people alone.
                    You and St. Thomas More.
                    Interesting viewpoint.
                    Now, if you would be willing to play along with my insanity for a moment, imagine a world where you could potentially achieve your goals in all but one of those areas but would have to sacrifice that one nearly completely.

                    Is there one you would sacrifice?

                    Would you, for example, give up some aspects of Freedom of Speech for universal firearms ownership, food, shelter, water and healthcare?

                    I am not trolling, I am genuinely curious as to how you think and WHICH of these things is most important and why.

                    The reason is simply that government in the real world is always a balancing act. Politicians around the world are, above all else, experts in the art of compromise. The way we determine a corrupt politician from a non-corrupt one, in theory, is that they are compromising from a motivation of service to others rather than a motivation of selfish gain.

                    Comment


                      #85
                      Originally posted by AcerTempest View Post
                      You and St. Thomas More.
                      Interesting viewpoint.
                      Now, if you would be willing to play along with my insanity for a moment, imagine a world where you could potentially achieve your goals in all but one of those areas but would have to sacrifice that one nearly completely.

                      Is there one you would sacrifice?

                      Would you, for example, give up some aspects of Freedom of Speech for universal firearms ownership, food, shelter, water and healthcare?

                      I am not trolling, I am genuinely curious as to how you think and WHICH of these things is most important and why.

                      The reason is simply that government in the real world is always a balancing act. Politicians around the world are, above all else, experts in the art of compromise. The way we determine a corrupt politician from a non-corrupt one, in theory, is that they are compromising from a motivation of service to others rather than a motivation of selfish gain.
                      I'd sacrifice healthcare, because with the rest of those things the people would have the ability to still demand it. I understand that politics are the art of the possible, however I am of the mind that our government has been stolen from us by the massive corporations that currently control this country. We need to take back our government and make it work for us if we want to fix the problems we have right now.

                      Comment


                        #86
                        Originally posted by ghost55 View Post
                        A shotgun license isn't hard to get. With that license most shotguns are allowed including things like the Saiga-12. This also allows for smooth/oval bore "firearms" with paradox chokes which means that many people have AKs and SKS rifles rechambered for .366tkm and Mosin Nagant's and SVDs chambered in 9.6x53mm Lancaster. These weapons are fairly accurate, and have more capacity and "nice" features than allowed in NY and NJ. After five years of "shotgun" ownership you can also buy rifles. Few restrictions aside from not allowing machine guns. It is now difficult but possible to get a concealed carry permit. I give it a 3.6: not great, not terrible.
                        Russia also has a massive black market problem, especially with military grade weapons, because their restrictions and controls are so strict.

                        Point being, NJ/NY/MA and even CA are nowhere close. Specifically because of the 2A.

                        Comment


                          #87
                          Originally posted by Ice Hole View Post
                          Russia also has a massive black market problem, especially with military grade weapons, because their restrictions and controls are so strict.

                          Point being, NJ/NY/MA and even CA are nowhere close. Specifically because of the 2A.
                          You're right. It's a lot harder to get a Stechkin APS in New Jersey.

                          Comment


                            #88
                            Originally posted by ghost55 View Post
                            You're right. It's a lot harder to get a Stechkin APS in New Jersey.
                            I've only seen one of those in a display. I've never gotten to fire one. Based on my past experience with machine pistols, I'd guess it's not that practical, but I hate having some bureaucrat tell me I can't have one.

                            Comment


                              #89
                              Originally posted by AprilRains View Post
                              I've only seen one of those in a display. I've never gotten to fire one. Based on my past experience with machine pistols, I'd guess it's not that practical, but I hate having some bureaucrat tell me I can't have one.
                              Apparently they are great when used with the wire stock that the FSB uses.

                              Comment


                                #90
                                Maybe. The Beretta 93R had a folding metal buttstock that helped a little, but not much. The H&K VP70's plastic stock was worthless, but the Stechkin's looks longer, which would address at least one of the VP70's shortcomings. That suppressor might help even more.

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