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Julian Assange arrested in London

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    #16
    If you think that Assange will ever see the outside of a cell or burlap sack again I have a bridge to sell you.

    Comment


      #17
      Originally posted by Dung Beatles View Post
      The truth is that it was a mixed bag from across the political spectrum. Liberal orgs were investigated as well.
      This is a whitewash. While it is true that some liberal orgs got swept up, it is apparent that the BOLO list was narrowly scoped to snare Republican/conservative/libertarian orgs, to anyone with a critical eye and an open mind:
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRS_targeting_controversy

      Hell, even the liberal media outlets were crying foul, at the time, a rarity.
      Consider for a moment that there is no meme about brown-haired, brown-eyed step children.

      Comment


        #18
        Originally posted by Dung Beatles View Post
        The truth is that it was a mixed bag from across the political spectrum. Liberal orgs were investigated as well.
        Dung,

        The Federal Judges in two separate class action suits, tried in two separate Federal courts, both ruled the IRS was specifically giving conservative political non-profits biased scrutiny and harassment:

        1) Linchpins of Liberty, et al., v. United States of America, et al., No. 1:13-cv-00777-RBW in the United States District Court for the District of Columbia

        2) NorCal Tea Party Patriots v. Internal Revenue Service, et al., No. 1:13-cv-00341 in the United States District Court for the Southern District of Ohio

        The result of the first judgement was the IRS paid settlements to over 400 conservative non-profits that was undisclosed in amount but described by the IRS as "substantial", and described by the plaintiff's counsel as "very substantial."

        The result of the second, separate, case against the IRS, in a separate Federal court, was another large payout of compensation settlements, and the IRS also wrote 41 of those conservative groups an apology and an admission that those groups were wrongfully subjected to heightened scrutiny and inordinate delays specifically because of their political views.

        Lerner, the head of the IRS claimed the 5th Amendment, and reported all of her emails about the matter had been destroyed accidentally.

        The person who decided to not prosecuted Lerner was...James Comey.

        James Comey, the same person who decided not to prosecute Hillary Clinton.

        The Hillary Clinton who admitted to deliberately having all her emails destroyed after learning she was going to be investigated, in an investigation, also being ran by James Comey.

        The pattern here is pretty clear, and the players who were enabling that pattern are consistent.

        So cut the crap.

        We'll find stuff to pick on the Trump administration before it is all said and done, before he is out of office.

        But, the Obama administration IRS was operating illegally and targeting political opponents of the sitting President Obama, they got doing it, they got taken to court for doing it, and they not only lost, they were admitted doing it, paid compensation to the victims for doing it, and apologized for doing it.
        Last edited by Dr. Gonzo; 4/11/2019 12:28pm, .

        Comment


          #19
          Originally posted by Dr. Gonzo View Post
          Snowden ended up in Moscow because the U.S. canceled his passport while he trying to stay on the move long enough for his leaks to be verified.

          He has said many times that he will return to the U.S. if he is assured he will get a public, transparent, trial.

          In any case, it does not matter, the illegal behavior by the government that Snowden alerted the public to was verified as true, and Obama was forced to backpedal and admit publicly that it was true.

          What do the charges that Assange took off a condom during sex have to do with the Snowden leaks or the Obama IRS political targeting of audits?

          Nothing...

          You are describing how you operate.

          If Assange gets prosecuted for taking off condoms while having sex with women against their consent regarding condomless sex, that is not something that I am going to defend Assange about.

          If Assange gets prosecuted for the Bradley Manning leaks, that is not something that I am going to defend Assange about, in fact, he deserves what he gets for that.

          If Assange gets prosecuted for Snowden's leaks, that is more complicated.

          The Government in that case was operating very illegally,

          and several intelligence agencies and the IRS under the Obama administration

          either were operating in a rogue manner,

          or with the blessing of President Obama,

          were violating the Constitution on massive scales.
          The problem with Snowden isn't that he showed domestic spying. It is that he showed foreign intelligence efforts. CIA and NSA legally can and for various reasons should be spying on foreign powers even current allies.
          Don't rely on theory if your life is at stake.

          "But now that you've anointed him as truthsayer, you'll be complicit with what happens when the next Jew comes here and is lambasted by an ultrasecular Rabbi" -W.Rabbit/Pship/Emily Dickinson/Earth Dragon/Self Proclaimed Editor Extraordinaire

          Comment


            #20
            Originally posted by Michael Tzadok View Post
            The problem with Snowden isn't that he showed domestic spying. It is that he showed foreign intelligence efforts. CIA and NSA legally can and for various reasons should be spying on foreign powers even current allies.
            That is why I used the phrase "more complicated".

            Unlike Manning, Snowden was careful not to expose any human assets.

            But, to your point, Snowden not only exposed the US government's unconstitutional domestic spying program,

            he also exposed the constitutionally legal spying programs on US allies, specifically the US NATO allies.

            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by Dung Beatles View Post
              This is one of those things that I know a bit about and in my opinion it's a mischaracterization of what happened.

              The parties that were "targeted" weren't targeted because they were in the wrong political party according to the IRS. They were targeted due putting political names on non-profit organizations which led the IRS to suspect that they didn't meet the standards to receive tax benefits of being a non-profit.

              Which is more likely, a sweeping conspiracy with a bipartisan political spectrum of IRS investigators investigating bipartisan financial crimes or people giving the IRS a legitimate reason to investigate them by making blatant political statements and then trying to claim to be a non-political active charity or non-profit organization.

              So no, it was NOT proven to be true. The IRS can audit anyone for any reason and naming your charity the Tea Party Fund to Persecute the Gay Welsh is as good a reason as any.

              Companies and politicians abuse the living shit out of the tax code to make tax shelters that they are not entitled to.

              A tax cheat is a tax cheat.

              To be perfectly clear, according to the IRS and the evidence they provided this was not a concentrated effort to investigate Republicans or Obama's rivals. It was a concentrated effort to target political orgs that were gaming the tax code. The charge that Obama directed them to do it really just sounds like a whole lot of politicians got their fingers caught in the cookie jar of their own re-election machinations.

              I don't like Obama but I think this charge is most likely false given the evidence.
              Shhhhhhhhhh let the people hate Obama. I want another 4 years of Trump. If he has done one thing right, he has exposed the media for the bullshit artistry and hypocrisy they have become, while claiming "Free speech" and "journalistic integrity." I've been calling them out for a decade now and it is nice to see people slowly learning.



              Let's make sure we tell the truth though and not biased bullshit. Using the IRS is not only old, it could be claimed as a time honored tradition:

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by It is Fake View Post
                Shhhhhhhhhh let the people hate Obama. I want another 4 years of Trump. If he has done one thing right, he has exposed the media for the bullshit artistry and hypocrisy they have become, while claiming "Free speech" and "journalistic integrity." I've been calling them out for a decade now and it is nice to see people slowly learning.



                Let's make sure we tell the truth though and not biased bullshit. Using the IRS is not only old, it could be claimed as a time honored tradition:
                Yeah, I've written before in this very thread, Trump is getting all of the shit out into the open.

                I'm glad of it.

                Whether or not people are going to get it or not is another question, considering the deeply entrenched biases involved.

                We need another 4 years of Trump, I agree...despite everyone's hero-worship of the FBI and DOJ, to think they don't act out of personal and/or institutional self-interest in the political realm is just silly.
                Falling for Judo since 1980

                "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

                "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

                "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by BKR View Post
                  to think they don't act out of personal and/or institutional self-interest in the political realm is just silly.
                  You shut up with that deep-state nonsense!
                  Consider for a moment that there is no meme about brown-haired, brown-eyed step children.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by submessenger View Post
                    You shut up with that deep-state nonsense!
                    They are human beings, after all...

                    I mean, which one of the FBI guys lost his pension/retirement. They were scared to death that if they went after Hillary, and she got elected, it would a bloodbath worse than anything on Game of Thrones...
                    Falling for Judo since 1980

                    "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

                    "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

                    "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Originally posted by Michael Tzadok View Post
                      The problem with Snowden isn't that he showed domestic spying. It is that he showed foreign intelligence efforts. CIA and NSA legally can and for various reasons should be spying on foreign powers even current allies.
                      What I find interesting is everyone fails to mention how this started with Bush and his administration.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Originally posted by It is Fake View Post
                        What I find interesting is everyone fails to mention how this started with Bush and his administration.
                        Patriot Act FTW!
                        Consider for a moment that there is no meme about brown-haired, brown-eyed step children.

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Originally posted by BKR View Post
                          Yeah, I've written before in this very thread, Trump is getting all of the shit out into the open.

                          I'm glad of it.

                          Whether or not people are going to get it or not is another question, considering the deeply entrenched biases involved.

                          We need another 4 years of Trump, I agree...despite everyone's hero-worship of the FBI and DOJ, to think they don't act out of personal and/or institutional self-interest in the political realm is just silly.
                          No, I don't think we need another four years. What I hope for, but know will not happen, is an overhaul of the voting system and all candidates have equal footing to run.

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by submessenger View Post
                            This is a whitewash. While it is true that some liberal orgs got swept up, it is apparent that the BOLO list was narrowly scoped to snare Republican/conservative/libertarian orgs, to anyone with a critical eye and an open mind:
                            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRS_targeting_controversy

                            Hell, even the liberal media outlets were crying foul, at the time, a rarity.
                            I don't care so much what the media outlets that thrive on controversy say but the FBI says there they found no evidence of abuse and that the IRS used keyword searches to find suspect filings.

                            The IRS does a fuckton of evil shit with little accountability but if the FBI says it found no actionable cause then I believe them and their report was made public on the matter then I can't think of any reason to doubt them.

                            The facts don't support the conspiracy theory. It also doesn't support the idea that Obama directed them to do this, unlike the many abuses of Trump where he openly directs people to dodge oversight and constitutional checks and balances.

                            Obama's shortcoming seem to indicate incompetence and naivete rather than corruption and criminal intent.
                            "Pave the way for the little guy, Caligula!" Harry Solomon, September 28, 1999

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by It is Fake View Post
                              What I find interesting is everyone fails to mention how this started with Bush and his administration.
                              Yes, but Obama exponentially expanded it.

                              I think both Bush and Obama should have been impeached while President because of their respective domestic spying programs.

                              And if I had my way, they would both be criminally prosecuted now for those programs.

                              Any President who continues those unconstitutional indiscriminate, over broad warrant process, domestic spying programs, Trump included, should be treated as behaving criminallly.
                              Last edited by Dr. Gonzo; 4/11/2019 12:45pm, .

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Originally posted by Dr. Gonzo View Post
                                That is why I used the phrase "more complicated".

                                Unlike Manning, Snowden was careful not to expose any human assets.

                                But, to your point, Snowden not only exposed the US government's unconstitutional domestic spying program,

                                he also exposed the constitutionally legal spying programs on US allies, specifically the US NATO allies.
                                Right. The first part makes him a legally protected whistle-blower and in my mind, if he had stopped there, a patriot.

                                The second part makes him a traitor, for which he should be appropriately punished.
                                Don't rely on theory if your life is at stake.

                                "But now that you've anointed him as truthsayer, you'll be complicit with what happens when the next Jew comes here and is lambasted by an ultrasecular Rabbi" -W.Rabbit/Pship/Emily Dickinson/Earth Dragon/Self Proclaimed Editor Extraordinaire

                                Comment

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