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    #16
    Originally posted by Michael Tzadok View Post
    One of the key tenants of original Communism/Socialism(I mean if read guys like Marx, Engels ect) was the euthanizing of non-productive members of society. So handicapped, mentally ill, mentally handicapped, pensioners and the chronically ill. As well, in the early stages, those whose education was not considered useful and for whom re-education would not be profitable for the state.
    Citation please.

    Comment


      #17
      Originally posted by Michael Tzadok View Post
      One of the key tenants of original Communism/Socialism(I mean if read guys like Marx, Engels ect) was the euthanizing of non-productive members of society. So handicapped, mentally ill, mentally handicapped, pensioners and the chronically ill. As well, in the early stages, those whose education was not considered useful and for whom re-education would not be profitable for the state.
      Originally posted by DCS View Post
      Citation please.
      The Rabbi is of course correct, both Karl Marx and Engels advocated racial genocide as foundational elements of achieving their socialist utopia.

      And Hitler stated that he was profoundly influenced by Marxism, and that he was a socialist, and that he thought communists could make good National Socialists (Nazis).

      However, it is important to note that Hitler was adamant about redefining socialism in Nationalistic terms centered around the German race.

      On many occasions, Hitler stated that his Party's recruiting goals were centered around taking both Communists and Socialists from the Left, by promising them Socialism, and recruiting students and the youth from the Right by promising them Nationalism.

      Originally posted by Karl Marx New York Tribune 1853
      The classes and the races, too weak to master the new conditions of life, must give way.
      Engels also called for racial genocide of all races in Central Europe except the Germans, Hungarians, and Poles, and that all others had to perish
      Originally posted by Friedrich Engels Die Neue Rheinische Zeitung
      The chief mission of all other races and peoples, large and small, is to perish in the revolutionary holocaust
      Originally posted by Friedrich Engels in a letter to the German economist Walther Borgius
      We regard economic conditions as that which ultimately determines historical development, but race is in itself an economic factor.
      that the inheritance of acquired characteristics extended … from the individual to the species", and "If, for instance, among us mathematical axioms seem self-evident to every eight-year-old child and in no need of proof from evidence that is solely the result of ‘accumulated inheritance.’ It would be difficult to teach them by proof to a bushman or to an Australian Negro.
      Hitler acknowledged that he was greatly influenced by Marx and Engels, and accepted that communists could make good National Socialists (Nazis)
      Originally posted by Hitler
      “I have learned a great deal from Marxism,”
      Originally posted by Hitler about his youth
      as I do not hesitate to admit...never shunned the company of Marxists
      Originally posted by Hitler
      petit bourgeois (the conservative middle class)… will never make a National Socialist … the Communist always will.
      Originally posted by Hitler at the Speech at the hall of Zum Deutschen Reich 1919
      Our fight is with money. Work alone will help us, not money. We must smash interest slavery. Our fight is with the races that represent money
      Hitler frequent endorses socialist ideals, which is no surprise as he was a socialist:
      Originally posted by Hitler Why We are Anti-Semites 1920 Munich Speech at the Hofbrauhaus
      Socialism as the final concept of duty, the ethical duty of work, not just for oneself but also for one’s fellow man’s sake, and above all the principle: Common good before own good, a struggle against all parasitism and especially against easy and unearned income. And we were aware that in this fight we can rely on no one but our own people. We are convinced that socialism in the right sense will only be possible in nations and races that are Aryan, and there in the first place we hope for our own people and are convinced that socialism is inseparable from nationalism.
      Yet another Hitler quote where he explains, that like Marx and Engels, he felt that socialism and genocide and eugenics were intertwined,
      Originally posted by Hitler Hitler Why We are Ant-Semites 1920 Munich Speech at the Hofbrauhaus
      Since we are socialists, we must necessarily also be antisemites because we want to fight against the very opposite: materialism and mammonism…
      Last edited by Dr. Gonzo; 10/28/2018 7:49am, .

      Comment


        #18
        Originally posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
        The Rabbi is of course correct, both Karl Marx and Engels advocated racial genocide as foundational elements of achieving their socialist utopia.

        And Hitler stated that he was profoundly influenced by Marxism, and that he was a socialist, and that he thought communists could make good National Socialists (Nazis).

        However, it is important to note that Hitler was adamant about redefining socialism in Nationalistic terms centered around the German race.

        On many occasions, Hitler stated that his Party's recruiting goals were centered around taking both Communists and Socialists from the Left, by promising them Socialism, and recruiting students and the youth from the Right by promising them Nationalism.



        Engels also called for racial genocide of all races in Central Europe except the Germans, Hungarians, and Poles, and that all others had to perish






        Hitler acknowledged that he was greatly influenced by Marx and Engels, and accepted that communists could make good National Socialists (Nazis)






        Hitler frequent endorses socialist ideals, which is no surprise as he was a socialist:


        Yet another Hitler quote where he explains, that like Marx and Engels, he felt that socialism and genocide and eugenics were intertwined,
        I would add:

        In the end, Hitler delivered neither Socialism, nor Nationalism,

        and merely delivered purges of his own people, and invasions of neighboring peoples.

        Which is what happens quite frequently under socialist regimes or other centrally driven governments (including monarchies for example) when:
        • the people allow themselves to be disarmed,
        • and allow the governments to violate the law in the enforcement of laws,
        • and operate under the premise that the government provides the resources critical to life to the people because the government really owns those resources, not private citizen ownership and free market operations.
        Last edited by Dr. Gonzo; 10/28/2018 8:06am, .

        Comment


          #19
          You know I'm going to check your citations, and have a lot of fun, don't you?

          Comment


            #20
            Originally posted by DCS View Post
            You know I'm going to check your citations, and have a lot of fun, don't you?
            Good.

            That shows proper skepticism.

            If I err, you will point it out, and I will thus learn something, and improve my own practice.

            If I did not, then you will have validated my efforts to educate myself.

            Thank you for not being lazy.

            Comment


              #21
              Lets begin with the first one in its context:

              Full text: https://www.marxists.org/archive/mar...1853/03/04.htm

              Worth reading for those of Irish ancestry.

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by Dung Beatles View Post
                And fuck Trump very much for saying that the Synagogue needs a fucking armed guard. Is that his idea of making America great? An armed guard in every church and a pistol on the hip of every school teacher? The man is a fucking moron.
                More of an attempt to avoid having to call for more rigorous vetting procedures to those looking to buy guns; otherwise, he'd have the NRA after him.

                That aside, a terrible act of violence and should, rightly, be condemned.

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by DCS View Post
                  Lets begin with the first one in its context:



                  Full text: https://www.marxists.org/archive/mar...1853/03/04.htm

                  Worth reading for those of Irish ancestry.
                  I skimmed the extract, Thank you. The Potato Famine writ large and yet food was exported from Ireland through the Famine period; to feed the Army in India, as an example. Rents payable to the likes of Palmerston (former PM and earlier Foreign Sec). Families forced off their rented land and beaten out of ditches by bailiffs etc. Many joined the Army and subsequently perished in the Battle of Aliwal, as the Death Rolls attest. A battle to be lost yet won against the odds. Trevelyan at the Treasury and refusing Relief, as an Act of God, so-to-speak, and of course the 1834 Poor Law Amendment Act was designed to end outdoor relief, reduce costs on the parish and penalise those who had to seek relief.

                  All that aside, yes, David Ricardo and Thomas Malthus are not unfamiliar names, I seem to recall that many articles attributed to Marx, were in fact written by Engels yet he directed that monies be paid to his mate, Karl. Also Engels may have been influenced by this lady, who I seem to remember was Irish (and taught him much of the awful conditions of the Labouring Poor and more).

                  As we know, Marx never worked nor held a job. He was in receipt of money from Engels all his life.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by Eddie Hardon View Post
                    I skimmed the extract, Thank you. The Potato Famine writ large and yet food was exported from Ireland through the Famine period; to feed the Army in India, as an example. Rents payable to the likes of Palmerston (former PM and earlier Foreign Sec). Families forced off their rented land and beaten out of ditches by bailiffs etc. Many joined the Army and subsequently perished in the Battle of Aliwal, as the Death Rolls attest. A battle to be lost yet won against the odds. Trevelyan at the Treasury and refusing Relief, as an Act of God, so-to-speak, and of course the 1834 Poor Law Amendment Act was designed to end outdoor relief, reduce costs on the parish and penalise those who had to seek relief.

                    All that aside, yes, David Ricardo and Thomas Malthus are not unfamiliar names, I seem to recall that many articles attributed to Marx, were in fact written by Engels yet he directed that monies be paid to his mate, Karl. Also Engels may have been influenced by this lady, who I seem to remember was Irish (and taught him much of the awful conditions of the Labouring Poor and more).

                    As we know, Marx never worked nor held a job. He was in receipt of money from Engels all his life.
                    The interesting point, I think, is that the Irish had their most fertile properties removed from them by the English government.

                    And whether we call the deprivation of private citizen's lands and properties socialism or monarchy or eminent domain or taxes or communism, taken to extremes, the results are always the same.

                    Governments given too much power over commerce or lands or factories or production play favorites based on who the ruling Party is, when those properties, or the fruits of those properties are redistributed.

                    Therefore a prudent People will take the Government out of any role of being the owner or custodian or provider of what should be the result of private commerce, and make sure that Government is only used to enforce contracts willingly entered into between private parties, and never used to take resources away from one party to make those resources the property of the Crown or the Government against the will of the private parties who own them privately.

                    Resources taken away from their private owners for the "Public Good" merely takes what was the private party's property and then treats it as if it were the property of corrupt politicians and corrupt administrators.

                    And the redistribution of the fruits of those government seized resources tends to always be redistributed in a manner designed to benefit those in political office, or their families, or those that will funnel some of the proceeds back to the politicians.
                    Last edited by Dr. Gonzo; 10/28/2018 11:14am, .

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Originally posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
                      The interesting point, I think, is that the Irish had their most fertile properties removed from them by the English government.

                      And whether we call the deprivation of private citizen's lands and properties socialism or monarchy or eminent domain or taxes or communism, taken to extremes, the results are always the same.

                      Governments given too much power over commerce or lands or factories or production play favorites based on who the ruling Party is, when those properties, or the fruits of those properties are redistributed.

                      Therefore a prudent People will take the Government out of any role of being the owner or custodian or provider of what should be the result of private commerce, and make sure that Government is only used to enforce contracts willingly entered into between private parties, and never used to take resources away from one party to make those resources the property of the Crown or the Government against the will of the private parties who own them privately.

                      Resources taken away from their private owners for the "Public Good" merely takes what was the private party's property and then treats it as if it were the property of corrupt politicians and corrupt administrators.

                      And the redistribution of the fruits of those government seized resources tends to always be redistributed in a manner designed to benefit those in political office, or their families, or those that will funnel some of the proceeds back to the politicians.
                      And companies/private sector allowed to amass too much power and wealth become the defacto government at the public's peril. Oligarchs are real.
                      The Caucasian always has stronger strength and when comes to grappling, Caucasians mostly win easily. I do know grappling and if I used it on Asians my size, it works. - Kung Fu dude that got waxed at OneFc try out.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        I have spent my life working in the utility industries. These companies can become so powerful they literally buy and install their own government officials.

                        Ajit Pa FCC Chairman :
                        ......Pai left his Department of Justice post in February 2001 to serve as Associate General Counsel at Verizon Communications Inc., where he handled competition matters, regulatory issues, and counseling of business units on broadband initiatives.[2]

                        Pai left Verizon in April 2003 and was hired as Deputy Chief Counsel to the United States Senate Judiciary Committee's Subcommittee on Administrative Oversight and the Courts. He returned to the Department of Justice to serve as Senior Counsel in the Office of Legal Policy in May 2004. He held that position until February 2005, when he was hired as Chief Counsel to the Subcommittee on the Constitution, Civil Rights, and Property Rights.......
                        -Wikipedia

                        Guess what he got rid of? Net neutrality. Guess who that benefits. Verizon.
                        The Caucasian always has stronger strength and when comes to grappling, Caucasians mostly win easily. I do know grappling and if I used it on Asians my size, it works. - Kung Fu dude that got waxed at OneFc try out.

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Corporations As Artificial People

                          Originally posted by Raycetpfl View Post
                          And companies/private sector allowed to amass too much power and wealth become the defacto government at the public's peril. Oligarchs are real.
                          That is a primary reason for the power.

                          That and how the SCOTUS has applied 1st Amendment to political contributions.
                          Falling for Judo since 1980

                          "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

                          "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

                          "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Let's look at the 2nd.

                            Friedrich Engels Die Neue Rheinische Zeitung
                            The chief mission of all other races and peoples, large and small, is to perish in the revolutionary holocaust
                            The pointed source says:

                            The year 1848 first of all brought with it the most terrible chaos for Austria by setting free for a short time all these different nationalities which, owing to Metternich, had hitherto been enslaving one another. The Germans, Magyars, Czechs, Poles, Moravians, Slovaks, Croats, Ruthenians, Rumanians, Illyrians and Serbs came into conflict with one another, while within each of these nationalities a struggle went on also between the different classes. But soon order came out of this chaos. The combatants divided into two large camps: the Germans, Poles and Magyars took the side of revolution; the remainder, all the Slavs, except for the Poles, the Rumanians and Transylvanian Saxons, took the side of counter-revolution.

                            How did this division of the nations come about, what was its basis?

                            The division is in accordance with all the previous history of the nationalities in question. It is the beginning of the decision on the life or death of all these nations, large and small.

                            All the earlier history of Austria up to the present day is proof of this and 1848 confirmed it. Among all the large and small nations of Austria, only three standard-bearers of progress took an active part in history, and still retain their vitality — the Germans, the Poles and the Magyars. Hence they are now revolutionary.

                            All the other large and small nationalities and peoples are destined to perish before long in the revolutionary world storm. For that reason they are now counter-revolutionary.
                            Full text: https://www.marxistsfr.org/archive/m...1849/01/13.htm

                            I'd say the statement: "Engels also called for racial genocide of all races in Central Europe except the Germans, Hungarians, and Poles, and that all others had to perish" is not really accurate. Good enough for a FB meme or for YMAS but not to be taken seriously in a more intellectually honest context.

                            BTW, those of Polish ancestry around here could find the full text linked interesting.
                            Last edited by DCS; 10/28/2018 12:39pm, .

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by Raycetpfl View Post
                              And companies/private sector allowed to amass too much power and wealth become the defacto government at the public's peril. Oligarchs are real.
                              STFU you commie!!!

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Originally posted by DCS View Post
                                Let's look at the 2nd.



                                The pointed source says:



                                Full text: https://www.marxistsfr.org/archive/m...1849/01/13.htm

                                I'd say the statement: "Engels also called for racial genocide of all races in Central Europe except the Germans, Hungarians, and Poles, and that all others had to perish" is not really accurate. Good enough for a FB meme or for YMAS but not to be taken seriously in a more intellectually honest context.

                                BTW, those of Polish ancestry around here could find the full text linked interesting.
                                Or we, could look at the full Engels letter that I was referring to, which we can find here:

                                http://marxists.anu.edu.au/archive/m...1849/02/15.htm

                                Let's look at some other fun quotes from that Engels letter:

                                People have learned by bitter experience that the "European fraternal union of peoples" cannot be achieved by mere phrases and pious wishes, but only by profound revolutions and bloody struggles; they have learned that the question is not that of a fraternal union of all European peoples under a single republican flag, but of an alliance of the revolutionary peoples against the counter-revolutionary peoples, an alliance which comes into being not on paper, but only on the battlefield.

                                And all that by way of thanks for the Germans having given themselves the trouble of civilizing the stubborn Czechs and Slovenes, and introducing among them trade, industry, a tolerable degree of agriculture, and culture!...

                                as certain as are for the Czechs, Croats and Russians the hatred of all Europeans and a most bloody revolutionary war of the entire west against them...

                                To the sentimental phrases about brotherhood which we are being offered here on behalf of the most counter-revolutionary nations of Europe, we reply that hatred of Russians was and still is the primary revolutionary passion among Germans; that since the revolution hatred of Czechs and Croats has been added, and that only by the most determined use of terror against these Slav peoples can we, jointly with the Poles and Magyars, safeguard the revolution...

                                then fight, "a merciless struggle for life and death" with the Slavs who betray the revolution, the struggle for the destruction and ruthless terror — not in the interests of Germany, but in the interests of the revolution!...
                                For extra fun, we can also look at this quote from Engels, "the Magyar Struggle" [Kampf Der Magyarische] 13.01.1849, that you referenced in your link:

                                The next world war will result in the disappearance from the face of the earth not only of reactionary classes and dynasties, but also of entire reactionary peoples. And that, too, is a progress.
                                I am pretty intellectually comfortable taking the position that Engels stated that he felt it was progress to exterminate any race, or people, that would resist the socialist revolution, or that was found to be inferior.

                                And that Marx seemed to feel just the same.
                                Last edited by Dr. Gonzo; 10/28/2018 1:10pm, .

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