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Hamilton Mixtape Immigrants: We Get The Job Done

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    Hamilton Mixtape Immigrants: We Get The Job Done

    https://youtu.be/6_35a7sn6ds

    If somebody wants to do an imbed, that'd be great.

    I usually stay away from the political threads on BS. So much noise and very little substance in many cases, but this song and the accompanying video have sparked me, and I wanted to share. To many, my views are going to come across as radical, idealistic, or perhaps just stupid. I get it. Perhaps though, some will agree, and some might see a perspective they are not usually face to face with.

    First, I don't believe in borders. This is my one holdout from my Libertarian days; the belief that a government, person, or organization can tell me where I am allowed to live and raise a family. I don't believe an imaginary line in the ground gets to bar me from taking myself or my family where we are safe. Or just happier, or well off for that matter. It's not consistent with free market ideas, or my own morals. No person is illegal. No amount of paperwork or luck of birth should keep one from trying to make the best life possible for themselves. If you have string enough reason to believe that you need to uproot yourself and move to another place, then that is strong enough reason for those already there to accept you.

    Second, no one can "steal" or "take" a job from anyone. Jobs belong to whoever the employer gives them to, and are not reserved for any class of person, especially not simply for reason of the geographic region they sprang forth from their mother's nether regions. To believe otherwise is also incompatible with free markets, or capitalism.

    Let's listen to the song, discuss these points, and then I'll post some more of my ideas on the subject.

    #2


    What did I just embed?

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Tramirezmma View Post
      https://youtu.be/6_35a7sn6ds

      If somebody wants to do an imbed, that'd be great.

      I usually stay away from the political threads on BS. So much noise and very little substance in many cases, but this song and the accompanying video have sparked me, and I wanted to share. To many, my views are going to come across as radical, idealistic, or perhaps just stupid. I get it. Perhaps though, some will agree, and some might see a perspective they are not usually face to face with.

      First, I don't believe in borders. This is my one holdout from my Libertarian days; the belief that a government, person, or organization can tell me where I am allowed to live and raise a family. I don't believe an imaginary line in the ground gets to bar me from taking myself or my family where we are safe. Or just happier, or well off for that matter. It's not consistent with free market ideas, or my own morals. No person is illegal. No amount of paperwork or luck of birth should keep one from trying to make the best life possible for themselves. If you have string enough reason to believe that you need to uproot yourself and move to another place, then that is strong enough reason for those already there to accept you.

      Second, no one can "steal" or "take" a job from anyone. Jobs belong to whoever the employer gives them to, and are not reserved for any class of person, especially not simply for reason of the geographic region they sprang forth from their mother's nether regions. To believe otherwise is also incompatible with free markets, or capitalism.

      Let's listen to the song, discuss these points, and then I'll post some more of my ideas on the subject.

      I initially was surprised by all the talk of borders in US politics lately.

      I tend to fall more in line with the idea that borders shouldn't be that important. Ideally, people would be able to travel all over the world living and working as long as they respect local laws and contribute something.

      Did you know that the US is one of the only countries in the world that taxes its expatriates? And now foreign banks won't let Americans open new accounts because the reporting requirements to the US IRS have become so onerous.

      In politics today, some say that a nation without borders is no nation at all. I say, a nation without borders is a super-nation. It's greater and grander than the old nation state. It is, at its best, a place where people from all over the world can share energy, hope, and aspiration, and come together in a way that is bigger than the tribal mindset.

      The only constant in the universe is change. Any effort to preserve through stasis will ultimately not succeed.
      Lone Wolf McQuade Final Fight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmrDe_mYUXg

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Wounded Ronin View Post
        I initially was surprised by all the talk of borders in US politics lately.

        I tend to fall more in line with the idea that borders shouldn't be that important. Ideally, people would be able to travel all over the world living and working as long as they respect local laws and contribute something.

        Did you know that the US is one of the only countries in the world that taxes its expatriates? And now foreign banks won't let Americans open new accounts because the reporting requirements to the US IRS have become so onerous.

        In politics today, some say that a nation without borders is no nation at all. I say, a nation without borders is a super-nation. It's greater and grander than the old nation state. It is, at its best, a place where people from all over the world can share energy, hope, and aspiration, and come together in a way that is bigger than the tribal mindset.

        The only constant in the universe is change. Any effort to preserve through stasis will ultimately not succeed.
        I think the idea of nations is headed the way of the Dodo. In order to move forward as a species, I think becoming a global society is inevitable.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Tramirezmma View Post
          I think the idea of nations is headed the way of the Dodo. In order to move forward as a species, I think becoming a global society is inevitable.
          That's almost explicitly what the political backlash in both the UK and the US was about. Lots of people identify with the idea of a particular nation state and when their concept of how that place qualitatively is becomes threatened, they themselves feel threatened enough to mobilize politically. In interview after interview following Brexit and in the US around the election, many people were really big on the idea of national identity and borders.
          Lone Wolf McQuade Final Fight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmrDe_mYUXg

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Wounded Ronin View Post
            That's almost explicitly what the political backlash in both the UK and the US was about. Lots of people identify with the idea of a particular nation state and when their concept of how that place qualitatively is becomes threatened, they themselves feel threatened enough to mobilize politically. In interview after interview following Brexit and in the US around the election, many people were really big on the idea of national identity and borders.
            They indeed are. I do acknowledge that the majority of people still need to identify with a certain tribe, and nations are a very convenient tribe to be a part of. We all went a reason to feel better than someone else. If we can't get that feeling from our own thoughts, accomplishments, or actions, the ego invents a group for us to be a part of and add its accomplishments to our own. In essence, I think that nationalism is just an extension of the same feeling that creates sports fanaticism.
            Last edited by Tramirezmma; 6/29/2017 6:36am, . Reason: Grammar

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by BackFistMonkey View Post


              What did I just embed?
              This song is fire, btw.

              Comment


                #8
                This country doesn't belong to those born here. It belongs to those who work, those who create, those who persevere and sweat. Most of us didn't struggle to get here. We didn't hike for miles, hide in trucks or shipping containers, or work for every inch closer to a better life in a new land we got. In my opinion, those actions represent what"America" is supposed to be far more than simply being born inside the border. What did YOU do to become American? No more or less than they did in many cases. So what makes you the judge, the arbiter of who is allowed the good life we have found?

                People are running from war, hunger, poverty, and desperation. They come here, and people want to otherize them? Call them illegal? I call them human, and as a fellow human, no aspect of their experience is alien to me.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Tramirezmma View Post
                  I think the idea of nations is headed the way of the Dodo. In order to move forward as a species, I think becoming a global society is inevitable.
                  I've saying for a lot of time the Westphalian system has become obsolete.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Tramirezmma View Post
                    In order to move forward as a species, I think becoming a global society is inevitable.
                    That's working out oh so well for Europe, ain't it?
                    "Through the centuries, the Jews have endured terrible persecution, and you know that. We've all read it, studied it. They've gone through a lot. And those seeking their destruction, we will seek their destruction." -President Donald Trump, spewing his Nazi, racist, anti-Semitism.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Tramirezmma View Post
                      In essence, I think that nationalism is just an extension of the same feeling that creates sports fanaticism.
                      It's called "patriotism".
                      "Through the centuries, the Jews have endured terrible persecution, and you know that. We've all read it, studied it. They've gone through a lot. And those seeking their destruction, we will seek their destruction." -President Donald Trump, spewing his Nazi, racist, anti-Semitism.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by 1bad65 View Post
                        That's working out oh so well for Europe, ain't it?
                        Is it not? Is Europe much worse off then the US is?

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by 1bad65 View Post
                          It's called "patriotism".
                          Either way, it's illogical. Be proud of yourself, maybe your progeny.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by 1bad65 View Post
                            It's called "patriotism".
                            ok that's not what you got going on there buddy ... hmmm ...

                            There you go. That's the horse you ride around on little buddy,

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Tramirezmma View Post
                              Is it not? Is Europe much worse off then the US is?
                              Let's see; they have Greece, Spain, and Portugal, so they are doing worse fiscally.

                              The EU has at least one country leaving it.

                              And they're having muslim terror attacks happening quite regularly.

                              I'd say we're doing much better.
                              "Through the centuries, the Jews have endured terrible persecution, and you know that. We've all read it, studied it. They've gone through a lot. And those seeking their destruction, we will seek their destruction." -President Donald Trump, spewing his Nazi, racist, anti-Semitism.

                              Comment

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