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    Originally posted by Diesel_tke View Post
    Yeah, it's semantics. It is a way for the government to work around giving them money. For example, here locally we wanted a big business to come in. We wanted them because we knew that they were going to bring jobs to the local area. Simply that. So we gave them land for pennies on the dollar and told them that they don't have to pay taxes for years.

    Now they could have done it a different way and said here buy this land and bring your company here. In return we will give you this couple million dollars to do whatever you want with. We can't do that, so we got around it by charging them almost nothing for land and exempting their taxes.

    No one else was allowed to bid on that prime land that was basically given away. No one else was give tax breaks. This was a transaction in my opinion.
    Absolutely a transaction, and, in reality, a form of subsidy.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subsidy
    Last edited by BKR; 7/26/2018 12:27pm, .
    Falling for Judo since 1980

    "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

    "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

    "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

    Comment


      Originally posted by BKR View Post
      I know of two examples off the top of my head, both in Idaho, of local government rejecting large business offers because demands were too high, and probably other reasons as well.

      If one looks at the idiots running say, Seattle or San Francisco, go figure...
      Good for yall to have some common sense in your local government.

      The ones running Austin never said No to anyone I know of.

      And like I said, all the people in high tech knew those companies were coming here anyway. They were just smart enough to get ridiculous "incentive packages" from the ignorant fools running the city.

      And that baseball deal was literally just a huge giveaway. The city, under the plan/scheme, was getting almost nothing, but the team was making off with millions. As I said, it was either the epitome of stupidity, or a case of serious graft in action.
      "Through the centuries, the Jews have endured terrible persecution, and you know that. We've all read it, studied it. They've gone through a lot. And those seeking their destruction, we will seek their destruction." -President Donald Trump, spewing his Nazi, racist, anti-Semitism.

      Comment


        Originally posted by BKR View Post
        ....

        Semantics again, it's OK, not worth discussing further. Your personal income tax situation would not be in the same vein as what happens between local or state governments and businesses negotiating for lower/delayed taxes, or for lowered/delayed utility rates, or to try to get the locals to build more infrastructure for them.

        Those are transactions, because something is being exchanged for something. In the case of tax cuts for you and me, it's not the same thing.
        A tax cut is a tax cut, and they aren't subsidies.

        Let's talk Austin since I'm familiar. They'd give them a break on property taxes, mainly. So the companies paid less in property taxes. But they never got checks, ie transactions.

        Had the city done something like given them X dollars to come here, that's a subsidy.

        Now you can say tax cuts and incentives and subsidies are all helpful to businesses, as they are. But calling them all subsidies is simply incorrect.

        I'll be fine not arguing it anymore, but in the future others will check you as well for misusing the term (albeit not in this echo chamber). I'm just trying to help pass along knowledge I once had to learn and to help you out, as you've not been overly hostile to me.
        "Through the centuries, the Jews have endured terrible persecution, and you know that. We've all read it, studied it. They've gone through a lot. And those seeking their destruction, we will seek their destruction." -President Donald Trump, spewing his Nazi, racist, anti-Semitism.

        Comment


          Originally posted by Diesel_tke View Post
          Yeah, it's semantics. It is a way for the government to work around giving them money. For example, here locally we wanted a big business to come in. We wanted them because we knew that they were going to bring jobs to the local area. Simply that. So we gave them land for pennies on the dollar and told them that they don't have to pay taxes for years.

          Now they could have done it a different way and said here buy this land and bring your company here. In return we will give you this couple million dollars to do whatever you want with. We can't do that, so we got around it by charging them almost nothing for land and exempting their taxes.

          No one else was allowed to bid on that prime land that was basically given away. No one else was give tax breaks. This was a transaction in my opinion.
          That's a good way to put it, but here's a huge difference you didnt cite.

          Subsidies are expenses in a budget, as checks are going out.

          Tax incentives affect the tax revenue coming in (it can go up or down).

          Now you are correct that some use the tax incentives as a way to not technically give subsidies, as subsidies have a negative connotation.

          Those sneaky lifer politicians cant be trusted, just like I always say. ;)

          As i said earlier, I'm just trying to help folks get it correct so they aren't corrected in the future.
          "Through the centuries, the Jews have endured terrible persecution, and you know that. We've all read it, studied it. They've gone through a lot. And those seeking their destruction, we will seek their destruction." -President Donald Trump, spewing his Nazi, racist, anti-Semitism.

          Comment


            Originally posted by 1bad65 View Post
            That's a good way to put it, but here's a huge difference you didnt cite.

            Subsidies are expenses in a budget, as checks are going out.

            Tax incentives affect the tax revenue coming in (it can go up or down).

            Now you are correct that some use the tax incentives as a way to not technically give subsidies, as subsidies have a negative connotation.

            Those sneaky lifer politicians cant be trusted, just like I always say. ;)

            As i said earlier, I'm just trying to help folks get it correct so they aren't corrected in the future.
            And personally I'm not against it either. My wife works at one of those and makes really good money. Which means that I get to subsidize my gun addiction. ;)
            Combatives training log.

            Gezere: paraphrase from Bas Rutten, Never escalate the level of violence in fight you are losing. :D

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            Comment


              Originally posted by 1bad65 View Post
              A tax cut is a tax cut, and they aren't subsidies.

              Let's talk Austin since I'm familiar. They'd give them a break on property taxes, mainly. So the companies paid less in property taxes. But they never got checks, ie transactions.

              Had the city done something like given them X dollars to come here, that's a subsidy.

              Now you can say tax cuts and incentives and subsidies are all helpful to businesses, as they are. But calling them all subsidies is simply incorrect.

              I'll be fine not arguing it anymore, but in the future others will check you as well for misusing the term (albeit not in this echo chamber). I'm just trying to help pass along knowledge I once had to learn and to help you out, as you've not been overly hostile to me.
              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subsidy
              Falling for Judo since 1980

              "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

              "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

              "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

              Comment


                Originally posted by Lindz View Post
                Lol you want me to believe a compulsive liar. Literately he can't stop himself. He lies obviously and when the truth is better for him.
                No, I want you to believe sources like Forbes who cite his net worth.

                Years back they calculated Fidel Castro's net worth, and put him on the Forbes Richest List (twice).

                Castro threw a fit, as rich socialists often do when their hypocrisy is thrown in their face. But Forbes backed their claims and explained the methodology used.

                If they can figure out Castro's net worth, they can figure out Donald Trump's.

                What's wrong with just admitting the man is worth billions???

                What's the problem here?
                "Through the centuries, the Jews have endured terrible persecution, and you know that. We've all read it, studied it. They've gone through a lot. And those seeking their destruction, we will seek their destruction." -President Donald Trump, spewing his Nazi, racist, anti-Semitism.

                Comment



                  "Subsidies come in various forms including: direct (cash grants, interest-free loans) and indirect (tax breaks, insurance, low-interest loans, accelerated depreciation, rent rebates).[2][3] "


                  Well then.
                  Combatives training log.

                  Gezere: paraphrase from Bas Rutten, Never escalate the level of violence in fight you are losing. :D

                  Drum thread

                  Pavel Tsatsouline: kettlebell workouts give you “cardio without the dishonour of aerobics”.

                  "Disliking someone is not evidence of wrongdoing or malfeasance or even bias." --Dung Beatles

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by 1bad65 View Post
                    No, I want you to believe sources like Forbes who cite his net worth.

                    Years back they calculated Fidel Castro's net worth, and put him on the Forbes Richest List (twice).

                    Castro threw a fit, as rich socialists often do when their hypocrisy is thrown in their face. But Forbes backed their claims and explained the methodology used.

                    If they can figure out Castro's net worth, they can figure out Donald Trump's.

                    What's wrong with just admitting the man is worth billions???

                    What's the problem here?
                    The Forbes list is unsourced stated income nonsense. All of the Forbes assumptions on what Donald owns have already been debunked. He doesn't own the properties that Forbes assumed he did. They are all over leveraged and or just leased by him.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by BKR View Post
                      Avoiding personal bankruptcy by forming LLCs and INCs is common (and smart) business practice.

                      Trump started off with a silver spoon in his mouth. He had every advantage. He did not start from scratch, which is the common definition of a "self made man".
                      The first part youd have to prove Trump did.

                      And then he still self made hundreds of millions, and didnt start with anywhere near that kind of money.

                      It is what it is.

                      What's so hard about giving the man some semblance of credit for excellent achievements??

                      Either way, the man has accomplished alot more in the private sector than any other President.

                      And that's showing in how the economy is really starting to take off under his leadership.
                      "Through the centuries, the Jews have endured terrible persecution, and you know that. We've all read it, studied it. They've gone through a lot. And those seeking their destruction, we will seek their destruction." -President Donald Trump, spewing his Nazi, racist, anti-Semitism.

                      Comment


                        Those aren't subsidies, 1Bad65 said so, so it must be true as everything he says is true. He is just looking out for you in case you ever step out of the Bullshido echo chamber and discuss this with real intelligent people like him. Doesn't want you looking the fool bro. Besides he said the issue was settled and he wasn't going to argue it anymore so stop playing your childish gotcha games. Keep up!!!
                        Don't rely on theory if your life is at stake.

                        "But now that you've anointed him as truthsayer, you'll be complicit with what happens when the next Jew comes here and is lambasted by an ultrasecular Rabbi" -W.Rabbit/Pship/Emily Dickinson/Earth Dragon/Self Proclaimed Editor Extraordinaire

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by 1bad65 View Post
                          The first part youd have to prove Trump did.

                          And then he still self made hundreds of millions, and didnt start with anywhere near that kind of money.

                          It is what it is.

                          What's so hard about giving the man some semblance of credit for excellent achievements??

                          Either way, the man has accomplished alot more in the private sector than any other President.

                          And that's showing in how the economy is really starting to take off under his leadership.
                          Made millions And lost hundreds of millions or so.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Raycetpfl View Post
                            The Forbes list is unsourced stated income nonsense. All of the Forbes assumptions on what Donald owns have already been debunked. He doesn't own the properties that Forbes assumed he did. They are all over leveraged and or just leased by him.
                            Clearly you are just another brick in the wall of this echo chamber.
                            Don't rely on theory if your life is at stake.

                            "But now that you've anointed him as truthsayer, you'll be complicit with what happens when the next Jew comes here and is lambasted by an ultrasecular Rabbi" -W.Rabbit/Pship/Emily Dickinson/Earth Dragon/Self Proclaimed Editor Extraordinaire

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Raycetpfl View Post
                              Made millions And lost hundreds of millions or so.
                              He had a reported 3.2 billion in debt in 1992, and could no longer make the interest payments. He's branched out since then so he is more solvent now, but the reason he doesn't want anyone not under an NDA looking at his books is he doesn't want people to see how little he is actually worth.
                              Don't rely on theory if your life is at stake.

                              "But now that you've anointed him as truthsayer, you'll be complicit with what happens when the next Jew comes here and is lambasted by an ultrasecular Rabbi" -W.Rabbit/Pship/Emily Dickinson/Earth Dragon/Self Proclaimed Editor Extraordinaire

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Diesel_tke View Post
                                And personally I'm not against it either. My wife works at one of those and makes really good money. Which means that I get to subsidize my gun addiction. ;)
                                What's your wife do? I didnt get it.

                                That said, incentive packages can be useful, if you need them. The problem in this case was Austin didnt need them. The companies were dying to come here without incentives. The city leaders were too ignorant to know that so they got played for fools.

                                What's even worse, is some businesses were already here just looking to expand. They'd demand an incentive package to expand, and city fell for it. Yeah, like instead of expanding an existing site they are going to to put a whole new facility in a different city they have no presence, infrastructure, etc in. Idiots.
                                "Through the centuries, the Jews have endured terrible persecution, and you know that. We've all read it, studied it. They've gone through a lot. And those seeking their destruction, we will seek their destruction." -President Donald Trump, spewing his Nazi, racist, anti-Semitism.

                                Comment

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