gay marriage

[Sorekara]

You have a lot of views about what Christians do and why they do those things. Unfortunately, you don't know what you are talking about. You keep throwing around "Calvinism" when the only reference you made to Calvinism was a complete miss about the most famous aspect of Calvinism.

You don't know what the fuck you are talking about. You are offering ignorant, confused, armchair sociology of religion, as well as putting forward a confused, scattershot account of what Christians should do, based on poorly understood fragments of scripture and irrelevant references to the Constitution.

Do you not realize that your alleged reference to Calvinism was a complete failure? You don't know what Calvinism is. Stop talking about it until you do. I'm not a Calvinist, but I've studied Calvin and Calvinism both in historical and in philosophical / theological terms. Unless you can explain what you mean by Calvinism here (without completely muffing it this time) and give some reason to think that it plays the role you suggest, it will be clear that you are still just talking out your ass and regurgitating some pop-sociological account of why those Christians are so mean that you don't even understand.

So far, about 75% of your specific claims have been demonstrable bullshit. Do you want to try offering some serious reasoning or is that the level you are comfortable at?

I'll concede to you on some of this. Re-reading the posts, I understand where you're coming from. I shouldn't have posted. However, This isn't implying I'm wrong in my view.

There are some misunderstandings between our posts. Something you posted later on gave me a clearer view of your questions. I've spent the last week or so thinking about this and reading. I see where I was mixed up, and now I think I understand how this conversation was supposed to evolve, and what was expected. Admittedly, I failed.

I'm not through here. At the moment apparently I'm not capable of forming a coherent discussion, and for good reason. I'm not appealing to anything other than reason at this point. I had a bad concussion a few months ago. I thought I was symptom free, and all was right. Apparently I still have a problem putting things together in my head. I apologize for that. However, I have discussed this matter at length and read at length about it. Some of my credentials involve 3 separate "Christian" forums in which all 3 one of the hottest and longest topics was Homosexuality. I was raised a Nazarene, My Great Grandfather was a Pentecostal preacher, my mother in law went to seminary, one of my good friends I've had since I was 14, lived in Greece for almost a decade to study for Greek Orthodox and is now a Bishop. My wife's uncle is also a Baptist pastor. My uncle was a Nazarene and is now a Baptist Deacon. Although, this doesn't make me a "scholar" it does give me a point of reference. Then again, it's just my word, for whatever that's worth.

I will ask you a favor for this. Please be patient, and more clear of what you're actually intending. Apparently I'm not understanding conversation as well as I thought. If there is something you think is different, It would be good to see it. If you know something, or think something different, It would be good to read it. As I said, I'm open. If I'm wrong, I will change my view and research the other direction as the facts present.

[JingMerchant!]

George Takei on the subject at hand :

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/georg...-marriage-fans

[Bezmond]

"rouge nation", "rouge regime" or "rouge state"...

Goddam commies.

[Omega Supreme]

I think the question of whether or not homosexuality is genetic is irrelevant. Call it nature, call it nurture; whatever you call it, homosexuality has been around for at least as long as recorded history and it isn't going anywhere. Let's all just stop pretending, sign on with gay marriage, and get back to the real issues.

Retards in politics?

[OwlMatt]

Religion be hanged. Homosexuality exists and will continue regardless of dogmatic belief. IMHO. It is not nature versus nurture. It is a matter of genetics. One day that gene will be identified. I have no proof of this, not one bit. Just give it a little time and reality will come to light.

I think the question of whether or not homosexuality is genetic is irrelevant. Call it nature, call it nurture; whatever you call it, homosexuality has been around for at least as long as recorded history and it isn't going anywhere. Let's all just stop pretending, sign on with gay marriage, and get back to the real issues.

[Vieux Normand]

I love your humor! I eat there often. I usually order the crispy duck with Peking sauce. I'm a total whore for that.

You thought that was duck, huh?

Mmmmkay.

Won't go into details, except to say that it was the last of its kind.

Hope it was good.

[atheistmantis]

Oh for fucksakes, everyone knows Taoism is a diner on Main Street.

I love your humor! I eat there often. I usually order the crispy duck with Peking sauce. I'm a total whore for that.

[Vieux Normand]

This may very well be the problem: this generalization from one Taoist to Taoism as an Religion. Not to mention Taoism to be Philosophy and/or Religion.

Oh for fucksakes, everyone knows Taoism is a diner on Main Street.

[Homernoid]

WTF is a "rogue religion"? Are you attaching yourself to Capn's fucktarded attitude that you can dismiss entire religious traditions because you disagree with their stance on same-sex marriage?

I tried a joke on the difference made between "bad" religions and others - (poor) rhetorics use terms like "rouge nation", "rouge regime" or "rouge state"...
simplified dualistic simplifications are my favorite, so there MUST be rouge religions, my goodness.

[Homernoid]

There were lots of problems with what he said. Since one was semi-coherence in his first post and another was dishonesty in his 2nd post about what his 1st post said, looking for a single key problem is probably a lost cause. But yes, he seems to conflate what one or more members of a tradition believe with the stance of that tradition as a whole.

agreed

That seems to be his claim about Taoism as a religion. After the Communist revolution, Taoism (like other religions and non-communist worldviews) was ruthlessly suppressed in China, so I doubt that there is much in the way of the former temple / monastery structure left. There is now a government sanctioned form of Taoism blended with socialism and hypernationalism which in theory all Chinese Taoists must join called the "Chinese Taoist Association." Through this group the government controls interpretation of Taoist texts, appointment of officials, etc. Since the Chinese government rejects same-sex marriage and dictates the views of the CTA, I doubt that the CTA actively favors it. But that tells us little about the content of Taoism under the circumstances.

Here is a useful general site: http://www.ibiblio.org/chinesehistor...ul/c04s05.html

thanks for the link

[ChuckWepner]

This may very well be the problem: this generalization from one Taoist to Taoism as an Religion. Not to mention Taoism to be Philosophy and/or Religion.

There were lots of problems with what he said. Since one was semi-coherence in his first post and another was dishonesty in his 2nd post about what his 1st post said, looking for a single key problem is probably a lost cause. But yes, he seems to conflate what one or more members of a tradition believe with the stance of that tradition as a whole.

So, by this, Taoism as an Religion is indifferent or even supportive on same-sex marriage?
What do the main Taoist Churches (?) say on that matter, like in PR China? I'm just being curious.

That seems to be his claim about Taoism as a religion. After the Communist revolution, Taoism (like other religions and non-communist worldviews) was ruthlessly suppressed in China, so I doubt that there is much in the way of the former temple / monastery structure left. There is now a government sanctioned form of Taoism blended with socialism and hypernationalism which in theory all Chinese Taoists must join called the "Chinese Taoist Association." Through this group the government controls interpretation of Taoist texts, appointment of officials, etc. Since the Chinese government rejects same-sex marriage and dictates the views of the CTA, I doubt that the CTA actively favors it. But that tells us little about the content of Taoism under the circumstances.

Here is a useful general site: http://www.ibiblio.org/chinesehistor...ul/c04s05.html

And the very next moment we are discussing "rogue religions": lol

WTF is a "rogue religion"? Are you attaching yourself to Capn's fucktarded attitude that you can dismiss entire religious traditions because you disagree with their stance on same-sex marriage?

[atheistmantis]

Religion be hanged. Homosexuality exists and will continue regardless of dogmatic belief. IMHO. It is not nature versus nurture. It is a matter of genetics. One day that gene will be identified. I have no proof of this, not one bit. Just give it a little time and reality will come to light.

[Homernoid]

I'm Taoist and I agree with gay marriage. Not all religions bad guys.

What you actually said (translated into literate English; I was serious about the ESL thing) was that you are a Taoist and support recognition of same-sex marriage rights. So, not all religions are bad, guys.

This may very well be the problem: this generalization from one Taoist to Taoism as an Religion. Not to mention Taoism to be Philosophy and/or Religion.

At least one way to read this (and I would argue the most natural) is that Taoism is a good religion unlike those other religions (Islam, Catholic Christianity, others) that do not support same-sex marriage.

So, by this, Taoism as an Religion is indifferent or even supportive on same-sex marriage?
What do the main Taoist Churches (?) say on that matter, like in PR China? I'm just being curious.

Your being willing to casually describe religions with whose stances you disagree about same sex marriage as "bad" in some kind of childish effort to score solidarity points makes you a presumptuous asshole.

And the very next moment we are discussing "rogue religions": lol

[ChuckWepner]

Excuse me for not typing everything perfect, the last time I checked this was still the internet. All I said was that not every religious person is against gay mariage.

What you actually said (translated into literate English; I was serious about the ESL thing) was that you are a Taoist and support recognition of same-sex marriage rights. So, not all religions are bad, guys.

At least one way to read this (and I would argue the most natural) is that Taoism is a good religion unlike those other religions (Islam, Catholic Christianity, others) that do not support same-sex marriage.

You didn't say anything about "not every religious person is against gay marriage." That (while obviously true) wouldn't explain your calling religions "bad." There are plenty of individual religious people who aren't against it even within traditions that oppose same-sex marriage, let alone in the Christian churches, Jewish synagogues, etc., that have publicly declared their support.

Your being willing to casually describe religions with whose stances you disagree about same sex marriage as "bad" in some kind of childish effort to score solidarity points makes you a presumptuous asshole.

[Diesel_tke]

Excuse me for not typing everything perfect, the last time I checked this was still the internet. All I said was that not every religious person is against gay mariage.

Well, you better check again. Sometime around 10:15 last night, this stopped being the internet.