gay marriage

[ermghoti]

These biological differences are as relevant as the biological differences between black and white people.

Right, because the historical physical inability of a woman to compete equally with men while bearing and rearing children has an equivalence in racial differences.

Marriage has the same reason to exist as burqua: protecting women from men. At the moment you accept everyone is born free and equal, marriage (both hetero and homo) becomes nonsense.

Pretty much, yes.

[goodlun]

You are looking at marriage from a western judeo-christian culture point of view.

Marriage has the same reason to exist as burqua: protecting women from men. At the moment you accept everyone is born free and equal, marriage (both hetero and homo) becomes nonsense.

I was under the impression marriages purpose was to desginate women and childern as property of the male.

[atheistmantis]

I was under the impression marriages purpose was to desginate women and childern as property of the male.

I'm going to assume you're either joking or a Mormon.

[It is Fake]

I also cite biological realities.

No, you expressed YOUR opinions on biological realities and supported them with social conventions.
To "cite" would mean you gave us articles, scientific studies and research supporting your position on "realities."

[goodlun]

I'm going to assume you're either joking or a Mormon.

I was more reffering to the suspected origins of marriage as opposed to my views on what a modern mariage is. However I still see the roots of what I said barried deep in peoples attitudes about marraige.

[ermghoti]

No, you expressed YOUR opinions on biological realities and supported them with social conventions.
To "cite" would mean you gave us articles, scientific studies and research supporting your position on "realities."

I need to provide citations for the fact that women bear children, lactate, and experience menopause?

[It is Fake]

I need to provide citations for the fact that women bear children, lactate, and experience menopause?

No, you need to use citations to support your conclusion.
It is always weird watching someone parse their own argument into a strawman.

[ermghoti]

No, you need to use citations to support your conclusion.
It is always weird watching someone parse their own argument into a strawman.

I'm stating that there are biological differences in the reproductive capacities between men and women. I am noting parallels between the conventions in marriage and those differences. I am positing that those biological facts are related to those conventions.

[atheistmantis]

I was more reffering to the suspected origins of marriage as opposed to my views on what a modern mariage is. However I still see the roots of what I said barried deep in peoples attitudes about marraige.

Seems to be quite a generalization as I read your response, e.g. People's attitudes about marriage. Just curious on this.

[DCS]

I'm stating that there are biological differences in the reproductive capacities between men and women. I am noting parallels between the conventions in marriage and those differences. I am positing that those biological facts are related to those conventions.

These biological differences are relevant because social conventions artificially made them relevant. For instance, Chinese Mousuo operate under different social conventions and marriage for them is a totally different thing.

[Vieux Normand]

Marriage has the same reason to exist as burqua: protecting women from men. At the moment you accept everyone is born free and equal, marriage (both hetero and homo) becomes nonsense.

Not going to wade through this entire thread, but I'm going to assume that either:

A) nobody has mentioned that, in a great many traditional cultures, marriage is not merely a pairing of individuals, but a socio-economic-political contract of alliance between entire families/clans,

or

B) somebody did mention this fact and it was ignored.

The gay marriage debate makes the most sense in a society where matrimony is strictly a matter of bonding two individuals. Where sealing alliances between families and/or clans is concerned--and this is still the case in much of the world--the debate, if and when it occurs, may be even more complicated.

[Omega Supreme]

Not going to wade through this entire thread, but I'm going to assume that either:

A) nobody has mentioned that, in a great many traditional cultures, marriage is not merely a pairing of individuals, but a socio-economic-political contract of alliance between entire families/clans,

or

B) somebody did mention this fact and it was ignored.

The gay marriage debate makes the most sense in a society where matrimony is strictly a matter of bonding two individuals. Where sealing alliances between families and/or clans is concerned--and this is still the case in much of the world--the debate, if and when it occurs, may be even more complicated.

It was brought up by me, but I'm not sure if ignored would be the proper interpretation of what happened.

[atheistmantis]

A quote from the movie Rock Star. "Whatever twirls your beanie love."

[Diesel_tke]

Not going to wade through this entire thread, but I'm going to assume that either:

A) nobody has mentioned that, in a great many traditional cultures, marriage is not merely a pairing of individuals, but a socio-economic-political contract of alliance between entire families/clans,

or

B) somebody did mention this fact and it was ignored.

The gay marriage debate makes the most sense in a society where matrimony is strictly a matter of bonding two individuals. Where sealing alliances between families and/or clans is concerned--and this is still the case in much of the world--the debate, if and when it occurs, may be even more complicated.

I guess I missed it, when Omega brought it up. But it does raise an interesting point. I have friends from India who still have arranged marriages. And it is to aline families and wealth to some degree. How funny would it be, if you found out you were being arranged to be married to another dude?

[erezb]

Why not brother and sister?