gay marriage

[atheistmantis]

One day when society gets their collective heads out of their asses there will be many changes. Not just gay marriage, but so many other issues. People just fear too many things and are so afraid of change. If they would only embrace it, just imagine the progress we could make!

[goodlun]

One day when society gets their collective heads out of their asses there will be many changes. Not just gay marriage, but so many other issues. People just fear too many things and are so afraid of change. If they would only embrace it, just imagine the progress we could make!

Never happen, our collective head has been so far shoved up our collective ass since the dawn of time. Same shit all the time. The pendulum swings back and forth on social issues as well. All this progress may not be permanent it is likely however to at least last your lifetime.

[KiwiPhil889]

Actually we investigated that, and a couple does not have to be married, homosexual or other wise for this to happen. These are some of my arguments and thank you for actually addressing my original discussion in the matter.

Cool cool.

I think the laws may differ slightly here. I was repeating (admittantly not word-for-word) part of the speech the main proponent of the law change used. From the context it was used in i believed it was a true recital of actual events. She also went on to clarify those acts that were specifically defined as illegal before the law change would still be illegal i.e polygamy,bigamy etc etc

[Pete838]

I don't care if you marry your goldfish. I just don't like the government deciding what marriage is and who can and can't do it and with who.

[Omega Supreme]

I don't care if you marry your goldfish. I just don't like the government deciding what marriage is and who can and can't do it and with who.

So you're against marriage?

[Pete838]

gay marriage

So you're against marriage?

I'm against government defining and administering marriage.

I'm married, "legally", but if we had it to do over my wife and I would have the ceremony celebrating our lives and commitment with our family and friends but skip the paperwork at the courthouse. A marriage license or state certificate adds nothing to our relationship.

Government didn't create marriage so why should we allow them to define it? Marriage is a spiritual rite. It should be in accordance with your (and your betrothed) beliefs, whatever they are. Christian, Unitarian, Mormon, or Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. If you don't have a faith you can bind hands or whatever you like. Get the government out of your life as much as possible.

[dougguod]

I'm against government defining and administering marriage.

I'm married, "legally", but if we had it to do over my wife and I would have the ceremony celebrating our lives and commitment with our family and friends but skip the paperwork at the courthouse. A marriage license or state certificate adds nothing to our relationship.

Government didn't create marriage so why should we allow them to define it? Marriage is a spiritual rite. It should be in accordance with your (and your betrothed) beliefs, whatever they are. Christian, Unitarian, Mormon, or Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. If you don't have a faith you can bind hands or whatever you like. Get the government out of your life as much as possible.

So, in accordance with your principles, I'm sure you and your wife don't avail yourself of any of the benefits that the government offers married couples.

[It is Fake]

I'm against government defining and administering marriage.

I'm married, "legally", but if we had it to do over my wife and I would have the ceremony celebrating our lives and commitment with our family and friends but skip the paperwork at the courthouse. A marriage license or state certificate adds nothing to our relationship.

Government didn't create marriage so why should we allow them to define it? Marriage is a spiritual rite. It should be in accordance with your (and your betrothed) beliefs, whatever they are. Christian, Unitarian, Mormon, or Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. If you don't have a faith you can bind hands or whatever you like. Get the government out of your life as much as possible.

Weird, that looked like a yes or no question to me.

[Pete838]

gay marriage

So, in accordance with your principles, I'm sure you and your wife don't avail yourself of any of the benefits that the government offers married couples.

There shouldn't be any incentive or disincentive to begin with, but getting married disqualifies you for more than it qualifies you for.
We aren't old enough to be concerned about social security survivors benefits, and it will probably be insolvent by then anyway. We don't make enough money for the tax rates to matter. The only perceivable benefit is filing only one set of tax forms.

[Diesel_tke]

There shouldn't be any incentive or disincentive to begin with, but getting married disqualifies you for more than it qualifies you for.
We aren't old enough to be concerned about social security survivors benefits, and it will probably be insolvent by then anyway. We don't make enough money for the tax rates to matter. The only perceivable benefit is filing only one set of tax forms.

Well, that is simply because you are ignorant of the Social Security policies. Just because you don't use them, or know them, doesn't mean they don't exist. There is a lot more to Social Security than just survivor benifits. There is disability for adults and children. Which also includes survivor benifits on the disabiilty program. You may not be using that now, but if you get in a car wreck tomorrow, that all can change and so will your opinion.

There is alos alot more issues with marriage than just Social Security. Like hospital issues. Can you make decisions at a hospital for your wife if she is incapacitated? Not if you are not married. What about insurance benifits such as coverage for family members under the same plan?

You are saying that you don't agree with marriage on a legal stand point, but do on a spiritual one. There is no law against spiritual unions. You can find a preacher to marry you to your car muffler. But it won't be legally recognised which is what this thread is abut. You can say you don't believe in it all you want, but that is irrelivant to the law. I can tell a judge that I don't believe in the murder law. But that won't keep me out of prison. Because as long as you reside in this country, it's laws are the ones you have to abide by.

[Devil]

One day when society gets their collective heads out of their asses there will be many changes. Not just gay marriage, but so many other issues. People just fear too many things and are so afraid of change. If they would only embrace it, just imagine the progress we could make!

Ooooh, yes!!! It will be so magical. Everyone will shit rainbows and watch the unicorns race on Sundays. Shut the fuck up.

Societies rise and fall. That's just the way it is. No ideological path will prevent war and suffering and all the other bad shit that eventually happens to any society. So, get off your pedestal of idealism.

The progress you imagine will happen if the government suddenly says it's fine for gays to be man and man or wife and wife really has no more impact on the fate of society than the color of shirt you chose to wear this morning.

One day when society gets their collective heads out of their asses there will be many changes. Not just gay marriage, but so many other issues. People just fear too many things and are so afraid of change. If they would only embrace it, just imagine the progress we could make!

Ooooh, yes!!! It will be so magical. Everyone will shit rainbows and watch the unicorns race on Sundays. Shut the fuck up.

Societies rise and fall. That's just the way it is. No ideological path will prevent war and suffering and all the other bad shit that eventually happens to any society. So, get off your pedestal of idealism.

The progress you imagine will happen if the government suddenly says it's fine for gays to be man and man or wife and wife really has no more impact on the fate of society than the color of shirt you chose to wear this morning.

[PDA]

One day when society gets their collective heads out of their asses there will be many changes. Not just gay marriage, but so many other issues. People just fear too many things and are so afraid of change. If they would only embrace it, just imagine the progress we could make!

You're a Star Trek fan arent you :)

[dougguod]

There shouldn't be any incentive or disincentive to begin with, but getting married disqualifies you for more than it qualifies you for.
We aren't old enough to be concerned about social security survivors benefits, and it will probably be insolvent by then anyway. We don't make enough money for the tax rates to matter. The only perceivable benefit is filing only one set of tax forms.

Should or shouldn't is a moot point. The reality is that the government does offer incentives. The question at hand is, how can the government justify not giving homosexual couples the same incentives it gives to heterosexual couples? Answer, it can't.

[Omega Supreme]

I'm against government defining and administering marriage.

I'm married, "legally", but if we had it to do over my wife and I would have the ceremony celebrating our lives and commitment with our family and friends but skip the paperwork at the courthouse. A marriage license or state certificate adds nothing to our relationship.

Government didn't create marriage so why should we allow them to define it? Marriage is a spiritual rite. It should be in accordance with your (and your betrothed) beliefs, whatever they are. Christian, Unitarian, Mormon, or Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. If you don't have a faith you can bind hands or whatever you like. Get the government out of your life as much as possible.

Right, so you're against marriage. You're contradicting yourself a bit I think you might have missed a bit of my discussion earlier. Before you can make these points you have to define marriage. The observation of a community between the "legal" joining of two people? In order for something to be legal government has to get involved. If you don't want the government involved then you can get married but it wouldn't be legal.

[Pete838]

gay marriage

Well, that is simply because you are ignorant of the Social Security policies. Just because you don't use them, or know them, doesn't mean they don't exist. There is a lot more to Social Security than just survivor benifits. There is disability for adults and children. Which also includes survivor benifits on the disabiilty program. You may not be using that now, but if you get in a car wreck tomorrow, that all can change and so will your opinion.

There is alos alot more issues with marriage than just Social Security. Like hospital issues. Can you make decisions at a hospital for your wife if she is incapacitated? Not if you are not married. What about insurance benifits such as coverage for family members under the same plan?

You are saying that you don't agree with marriage on a legal stand point, but do on a spiritual one. There is no law against spiritual unions. You can find a preacher to marry you to your car muffler. But it won't be legally recognised which is what this thread is abut. You can say you don't believe in it all you want, but that is irrelivant to the law. I can tell a judge that I don't believe in the murder law. But that won't keep me out of prison. Because as long as you reside in this country, it's laws are the ones you have to abide by.

We were discussing government benefits of marriage, so some of the things you mention don't really apply. For example, making decisions in a hospital isn't a government benefit, and you can choose anyone as your healthcare power of attorney if you plan ahead. Insurance benefits are a private transaction.

Regarding actual government benefits like OSDI, couldn't government simply respect an establishment of marriage without needing to define who can and cannot be married? If any two people (or three or however many) want to sign a contract with each other that they are married then there is no reason the government shouldn't respect that and no reason the government needs to administer it.

We have allowed government into every facet and corner of our lives so much that we can no longer even privately define that men use the men's room and women use the women's room. Now government decides that as well. The solution isn't for government to change the definition or allow this or disallow that. The solution is for government to get the hell out of it and respect what people decide for themselves. Of course the religious right is against personal freedom or people they don't like and the left would rather protect the freebies and goodies that come with govt largesse.

[/libertarian rant]