Anyone thinking enlisting should read this

[patfromlogan]

http://www.truthdig.com/dig/item/the...XsyLg.facebook

On the tenth anniversary of the Iraq War, a dying veteran writes something that anyone who is thinking of enlisting in the US armed forces should read, before they throw away their lives for the ultimate Bullshido, US foreign policy: decided by Chicken Hawks and Neo-Con asswipes who fire or get rid of any military brass who doubt their vision of conquest. Before any rah rah types get too pissed be sure you know who Thomas White and Eric Shinseki are and what Bush Co did to them (and dozens of top brass who thought Rummy was wrong). Be sure to know the truth because I've had it to here with rah rah "patriotic" bullshit and if that's all the feedback I get then I'll conclude I'm dealing with fascists.

Hopefully they may be some intelligent or moral response.

A Message to George W. Bush and Dick Cheney From a Dying Veteran

[submessenger]

Yes, each member of our all-volunteer armed forces may end up maimed or dead. As such, it is important that they realize this before they make a commitment to follow the orders which may lead to their untimely demise.

And, yes, our government does a whole lot of things that, in hindsight, are mistakes or just outright stupidity.

These realities are not new to this country (see also Ron Kovic). So, while I grieve for our fallen and wounded soldiers, I have little sympathy for Mr. Young, who is attempting to levy posthumous blame for what was, ultimately, his own decision.

Yes, Pat, in a strange, twisted way I'm agreeing with you. If you don't want to face the possibility that you might be permanently injured or killed for politics that you don't believe in, DON'T ENLIST.

[tgace]

Yes, each member of our all-volunteer armed forces may end up maimed or dead. As such, it is important that they realize this before they make a commitment to follow the orders which may lead to their untimely demise.

And, yes, our government does a whole lot of things that, in hindsight, are mistakes or just outright stupidity.

These realities are not new to this country (see also Ron Kovic). So, while I grieve for our fallen and wounded soldiers, I have little sympathy for Mr. Young, who is attempting to levy posthumous blame for what was, ultimately, his own decision.

Yes, Pat, in a strange, twisted way I'm agreeing with you. If you don't want to face the possibility that you might be permanently injured or killed for politics that you don't believe in, DON'T ENLIST.

Exactly. And if you believe there was a "Golden Age" when this was not the case, I have some swamp land to sell you....

[patfromlogan]

First, I have great sympathy for Mr. Young, as I have great sympathy for my friends who served and suffered death or PTSD or disease from Vietnam. They were LIED to, that some young men and women in America believe their government and in patriotic faith serve and suffer for their county is admirable. That they were suckered by asshole liars is very sad and makes me angry. And I can't sit back and say, your fault.

Hmm, while I know well that many of the wars are bullshit (Shores of Tripoli we back the bad guy, Vietnam we backed the bad guy etc etc), I do think that some wars can be seen as justified. I do believe that there was a Golden Age when it made some sense to enlist, such as WWII. If the veterans think that the wars are bullshit, how can you serve?

[mike321]

I appreciate this man's service and extreme sacrifice. All volunteers should be extremely careful of this path. His points are extremely similar to points made by previous writers and I don't find them very convincing. His position does give powerful insight into how important our choice of leadership is and maintaining a healthy dose of skepticism. As a voter (who has never faced the danger this man has an am well aware of it) I focus more on gulf war 1 as a decision point then the Iraq invasion following 911. I also look at our long term alliances with questionable countries such as Saudi Arabia as a potential risk factor. We invaded Iraq, withdrew, projected force to maintain terms of an armistice for years. To call our war "preemptive" looks past the unstable situation we were in, or maybe we could have done that for years, i am honestly not sure. Going forward we should look at successfully leaving conflicts, dissolving alliances with countries where an American are denied basic rights when try visit, and keeping our nose out of as many places as possible.

[Phrost]

Is this that "thing" that's been going around on TV news channels that I refuse to watch because they're not fucking news, so I only heard about it because someone noticed I had an ACU backpack and brought it up?

That thing?

Here's the response:

All. Volunteer. Military.

There you go, problem already solved.

[patfromlogan]

Is this that "thing" that's been going around on TV news channels that I refuse to watch because they're not fucking news, so I only heard about it because someone noticed I had an ACU backpack and brought it up?

That thing?

Here's the response:

All. Volunteer. Military.

There you go, problem already solved.

So why don't we just hire more mercenaries, since "serving" has nothing to do with patriotism or even, defense of the nation.

[Phrost]

You're missing the point because you're coming from the generation that saw a draft.

Every single one of the servicemen and women that fought in Iraq and Afghanistan had a choice not to join, not to serve, and not to risk their lives at the behest of the government.

Now, if your point is that the government doesn't represent the will of the people, that's a separate conversation.

[Cassius]

When I read that letter, I see small words from a broken, bitter man. While I agree that his case certainly a great example of why the VA desperately needs reformed (Or whatever it is one does when there is more cancer than healthy flesh), I somehow find myself doubting his authority to speak on the legality of invading Iraq.

It's an all volunteer military. Your military career is what you make of it. Sometimes you get dealt a shit hand.

[slamdunc]

So why don't we just hire more mercenaries, since "serving" has nothing to do with patriotism or even, defense of the nation.

Everyone who volunteers for military service does so for their own personal reasons. Some do it for the college money, some do it for adventure and others do it because they want to serve and to give back. I volunteered because I love this country and feel that I owe the USA my allegiance and stand ready to go serve again. We cannot all be lumped into your group.

Some of us are patriots and care; I don't care who is President, if I get the call I will do as I am told. If I survive, there will be plenty of time to reflect on the insane politics that led us to war in the first place.

[FHoppy]

"I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of all officers appointed over me"

I understand that this man felt duped by the Iraq War; however, one of the first things you learn in any branch is that higher you go, the more fucked up the viewpoint gets. Needs of the service overrode your vengeance crusade. Had you been in Afghanistan, some other unlucky SOB would have had your Iraqi shit sandwich instead.


Of course, it's easy for me to say. I was Navy in what was mostly peace time.

[goodlun]

I came very close to joining the USAF under there TDSP program so that I can get a TS SDI clearance. While the school I was going to had the right Accreditation for the program on the undergraduate level the masters program did not so that shot that plan to hell.
Point being many people have many different reasons for joining.

[slamdunc]

I came very close to joining the USAF under there TDSP program so that I can get a TS SDI clearance.

What is the SDI suffix; I'm not familiar with that type of clearance. I held TS SCI (Sensitive Compartmented Information).

[goodlun]

Typo should have been TS SCI
I need one of these clearances to get decent work in San Diego

[slamdunc]

Typo should have been TS SCI
I need one of these clearances to get decent work in San Diego

If I would have kept mine, I would have gone to Afghanistan to train their police, making twice what I make now (tax-free to boot).

This is a good example of enlisting in order to better oneself. I am all for that too; you give some, you get some. Some of the benefits you end up with as a veteran are really excellent.