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Cprime Bracelets = Scam? Seems so...but don't tell Cprime.

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    Cprime Bracelets = Scam? Seems so...but don't tell Cprime.

    Boy...junk science is making real money these days in the form of magic bracelets.

    CPrime "power" bracelets containing mysterious electromagnetic properties that (through placebo effect, it seems) are supposed to improve speed, strength, flexibility...naivety?

    After failing at least one double blind university study...

    AND

    being called out as a scam by a news investigation...

    Cprime responded in turn with an amazing amount of dubious marketing material about their secret (i.e. non-existent) patent pending "technology". A Youtube search will show you that once dissected, the "technology" appears to be nothing more than some metal foil.

    Milllions appear to be buying into it, too, and ignoring the hard science deflating Cprime's claims.

    Find a website, blog, or youtube video questioning Cprime's claims or worse....providing evidence of a scam, you'll find an army of Cprime trolls rising to defend the product.

    Of course, almost all of these defenders are also Cprime distributors who paid to become distributors and who also try to recruit downstream agents, in typical MLM fashion.

    Of course, it should be no surprise that this has an MLM/pyramid ring to it.... revelations came out that one of the primary players behind Cprime, Rob Deboar, came under FTC investigation for illegal pyramid scheme "BurnLounge, Inc", it still seems that Cprime and other energy bracelets are making money hand over fist across America.

    On the heels of actions in Europe and Australia, where the popular Power Balance bracelets were recently banned due to junk science determinations, should the FTC be banning these devices in the US?

    One Google search will show you that there is a war of perception going on between university scientists, the news media, and skeptics vs. the Cult of Cprime, which has its own Twitter, Facebook, and Youtube pages and thousands of devotees.

    I'm now aware of a number of people I know using/selling these. Keep in mind whether technically "illegal" or not, CPrime is definitely a multi-level marketing (MLM), or "pyramid" scheme. Is it illegal? Well that all depends on what's claimed....and Cprime is very careful with their language:

    cPRIME makes no healing, curative or medical claims or warranties regarding its products. cPRIME's products do not diagnose, cure, treat, heal or prevent any disease, illness or medical condition. If you have a medical condition or illness, you should consult your physician. If this product was represented and/or sold to you as a medical device, please return the product and contact us at [email protected] or call 214-269-8270.
    Cprime is very insistent that their technology is "patent pending" but no patent application is on file with USPTO...of course when questioned, their claim is that it's "too secret" and "still pending".

    So what gives? Thoughts?

    The primary reason these things are so popular is that major athletes are endorsing them (paid endorsements, of course).

    Should it matter than Shaquille O'Neal and a hundred other celebrities claim their back pain, shoulder flexibility, acne, or marital problems are "cured" by this pseudoscientific device?

    Or should the university double blind fail and investigative reports by major news stations be enough to encourage the FTC to figure out why people are buying into this almost cult-like following?
    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 9/02/2011 4:46pm, .

    #2
    Carter Hargrave's Jeet Can't Do

    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=31636

    Comment


      #3
      Cprime's "technology", for your review....

      Technology

      The technology inside cPRIME consists of a patent-pending antenna array that is designed to absorb, redirect, and balance the electromagnetic energy around the human body.

      When the electromagnetic field is in proper balance, it supports the functioning of every system in the body. When the field is out of balance, the body cannot function at peak levels. cPRIME is designed to restore balance, enabling peak performance and a subsequent improvement in overall well-being.

      Antenna Array

      In basic terms, an antenna is an apparatus that receives and redirects signals. cPRIME technology consists of a patent-pending antenna array, designed to both receive and redirect the electromagnetic energy that surrounds the human body.

      Energy Field

      The human body's basic functions generate and are sustained by electric charges. This energy is manifested in electromagnetic fields that surround the entire body. An electrocardiogram (or EKG) is an illustration of the strongest of these fields, generated by the heart.

      Imbalance

      Stress and injury impair the functioning of the body, thus creating imbalance in its electromagnetic field. Beyond these factors, the environment can also play a significant role. High intensity EMF radiation damages basic cell structure. Mounting evidence indicates that low-intensity EMF radiation also has a negative impact on the human body.
      As someone with a healthy education in electrical engineering, I'm 99% convinced that if I had a debate with a Cprime devotee about the science, I'd be 99% right and they'd be 100% certain I was wrong.

      This guy agrees, and he actually bought one to rip it apart. He found no real "proprietary technology". But oh boy, watch the comments from the Cprime zealots...

      Last edited by W. Rabbit; 9/02/2011 4:58pm, .

      Comment


        #4
        I take issue with use of the term "junk science". There is only one kind of science, and it's called science. Even with proper intent, putting "junk", or "creationism" or any other word before it does more harm than good. We already have terms for spurious claims that fail in the face of science. Religion, snake oil, witchcraft, shenanigans, take your pick. Let's not help to ruin the reputation of actual science with these new terms.

        This kind of thing is interesting from a psychological and sociological perspective. What makes people believe in things that have no scientific credibility?

        I have a relative, now deceased, who used to believe in all sorts of stuff like this. She believed that quartz crystals held some mystical power to improve health and also started to get into the magnetic bracelet thing in her final years. The fact that this kind of scam preys on the elderly and people in poor health desperate for anything that will help them might be the worst part, but maybe someone else can think of something even worse.

        USPTO does not do its fucking job. If you take a look at slashdot.org on a given day you will see what I mean. It is now routine to see companies like Microsoft getting patents on technologies that have already been around for 30 years+ and which they clearly did not invent. So it would not surprise me much if a company could get a patent for some BS like this that doesn't actually work.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by No.1_Son View Post
          I take issue with use of the term "junk science". There is only one kind of science, and it's called science. Even with proper intent, putting "junk", or "creationism" or any other word before it does more harm than good.
          Yeah but the term has been around for decades and is used in court and by the government, at least in the United States....anyways semantic and kind of off-topic...this thread is about Cprime.

          Originally posted by No.1_Son View Post
          This kind of thing is interesting from a psychological and sociological perspective. What makes people believe in things that have no scientific credibility?
          I agree, the placebo/psychosomatic effect is interesting enough to warrant study...but devices that claim to have an effect that is actually the placebo effect, and can be corroborated by independent study? And the products in question are making MILLIONS because their descriptions are "sciency"? Now we're getting closer to fraud, which of course is not new to MLM/pyramid business models.

          Originally posted by No.1_Son View Post
          USPTO does not do its fucking job. If you take a look at slashdot.org on a given day you will see what I mean. It is now routine to see companies like Microsoft getting patents on technologies that have already been around for 30 years+ and which they clearly did not invent. So it would not surprise me much if a company could get a patent for some BS like this that doesn't actually work.
          Agreed, but the problem here is that Cprime is claiming that they alone have a "patent pending" and that this differentiates them from competitors.....yet when questioned, no patent application or details are ever disclosed...just more "sciency" rhetoric that might fool most people but falls on my ears as nearly impossible based on modern physics.

          I was a Slashdot reader for 10 years before I quit and found a *cough* more troll free environment to hang out but yeah, I am well aware of the kinds of crap the USPTO will approve. But...there is crappy approved patent, and there is the never-ending "patent pending" that I feel is a way of leading people along.

          "OH, they have a PATENT PENDING, well, that means they're legit". This is what the Cprime Crowd is evangelizing...

          Comment


            #6
            Next time you watch one of those infomercials showing how balance is improved with the little magnet bracelet, pay close attention to the person affecting off balance before and after.

            I have aluminum foil hats for sale. Hand crafted in the USA.

            Be one of the first 100 buyers and I'll include an additional hat for your significantly stupid other, for, you guessed it....

            FREE!!!

            Just pay separate shipping and handling.
            Carter Hargrave's Jeet Can't Do

            http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=31636

            Comment


              #7
              Cprime definately works. I often double the effect by taking homeopathic penis enlarging "medicine" while wearing my cprime cock ring.





              New meaning to the term "junk science".
              Last edited by dflanmod; 9/02/2011 5:31pm, . Reason: more sarcasim

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by hungryjoe View Post
                Next time you watch one of those infomercials showing how balance is improved with the little magnet bracelet, pay close attention to the person affecting off balance before and after.

                I have aluminum foil hats for sale. Hand crafted in the USA.

                Be one of the first 100 buyers and I'll include an additional hat for your significantly stupid other, for, you guessed it....
                I'll only buy one if its at least $100!

                Comment


                  #9
                  How would you guys handle a friend/training partner who was really deep into this stuff, making great money selling them, but also buying into the (very) questionable claims about the EM fields of the human body?

                  Let them go on thinking whatever? Try to dissuade them, knowing full well the Australian and European consumer protection agencies are already cracking down on these and that similar FTC action here in the states would definitely mean bad news for big distributors (as in, give us our money back).

                  As in, when MLM schemes are busted up, shit rolls downhill?

                  I feel very conflicted between my strong desire to bust scams and my desire to keep the peace...let sleeping dogs lie...and just go on knowing full well that people will buy ANYTHING they believe in, science be damned.

                  Similar to how I just won't argue politics or religion with certain people...is it a friendship faux pas to try to attack or debate the science of something that someone you know has already "bought in" to, even when it's maddening to you that you know the science well enough that you didn't really need to see their "research" to know it was quackery, like a cold fusion claim?

                  I find it interesting with so many pro athletes and everyday people swearing that "it works the moment you put it on you FEEL it", there has yet to be produced a single piece of electromagnetic imagery SHOWING the bracelet manipulating fields.

                  It's not like we don't have that technology...or would Cprime say: "of course you can't perform an MRI on someone wearing a Cprime bracelet...it would deflect all the alpha wave particles operating in the 1.21 gigawatt range!!!"

                  Look! Real science showing EM field resonance. Where is Cprime's version?

                  Last edited by W. Rabbit; 9/02/2011 6:11pm, .

                  Comment


                    #10
                    These are just the power balance faggotry rebranded right?

                    We were playing poker with my coach and one of the guys was into that shit and promised to show me how it worked.

                    They did the first test from this video:



                    Arms outstretched and on one leg.

                    I tilted abit on the first one and when they did the second test I deliberately collapsed completely and fell on the floor, lol.

                    Silly fuck was flabbergasted that not only had it not worked, but it had made me worse.

                    Told him he was a jester and went back to playing poker and drinking beer.

                    Everyone else joined in that he was a bullshitter.

                    Seriously guys, its that easy to dick with these fuckwits, let them do their tests and deliberately fail them. They're cheating, so cheat back and make them look stupid.
                    sigpic

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Rabbit.
                      My advice about the friend would be to gear the conversation toward the dangers of the business model. As for the product, the people who believe in this sort of crap are worse than religious zealots. They have so much faith/belief that you will never sway them and they will just go ape shit on you for attacking their precious beliefs.

                      My mom who would otherwise be considered highly intelligent believes in this sort of shit and I have never been able to broach the fraud subject without sending her into a fit of rage. Arguing against a belief/faith system is usually futile.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by judoka_uk View Post
                        These are just the power balance faggotry rebranded right?
                        Well sort of. Power Balance is definitely similar, and is still legal in the US. Power Balance is the specific brand that recently lost its consumer protection case in Australia and has since been forced to remove their product from that country, leading to other magic bracelets being scrutinized...that spread to European protection agencies following suit...strangely, the US is silent on the matter...but that doesn't mean the FTC isn't taking an interest...especially since Rob Deboar, already on their radar for past pyramid schemes, is heavily involved.

                        Keep in mind: Power Balance's "technology" is a hologram sticker. Cprime's technology is allegedly a bit of metal foil they call a "bio-antenna".

                        Shaquille O'Neal was one of the big endorsers of Power Balance, too bad even that couldn't help his foul or 3 point shots, eh?



                        But Cprime seems to be blowing that product away, popularity-wise...based on similar pseudoscientific hooey. Whereas Power Balance had a few big names, Cprime is stacking them up fast:
                        The company has several celebrities and athletes who endorse the cPrime bracelet. Among them are Alex Rodriguez of the New York Yankees, Dwight Howard of the Orlando Magic, Nancy Liebermann, a WNBA Hall-Of-Famer, and Sunny Garcia, a world champion surfer.
                        A.Rod is a Cprime wearer? Thank god A.Rod will be retired by the time my sons grow up, or I'd have to actually explain the superstitious nature of athletes to them at too young an age...steroids and power bracelets....Christ.

                        The difference is that Power Balance tried to be very specific with their claims (using specific frequencies, "studies" etc) unfortunately when examined in the court they were forced to admit it was 100% bullshit.

                        This would seem to indicate why Cprime is so hush-hush about their "technology"...the less they say, the less they'd have to attest to in court, if called on it. As long as they stay "patent pending", they never have to divulge their product's inner workings...likely because there are none.

                        HOWEVER.

                        If you approach Cprime from a purely business perspective as opposed to a "believer", some of the specific are straight from the standard MLM playbook.

                        Yep, once you pay hundreds to join the Cprime MLM system, you're automatically shipped bracelets each month that you need to sell else you continually grow a surplus inventory, same as with Avon, Silpada, Mary Kay, Amway...except in those cases they are useable products, in this case they are plastic bracelets with "sciency" powers. How can you move more inventory? Recruit peons. Zug zug...

                        To get started as a cPrime distributor, you must purchase one of their Starter Packs. There are three. The Basic Pack, The Pro Pack, and the Elite Pack. The prices range from $299 to $899. You must also maintain a monthly auto-ship.
                        http://thehuntedmarketer.com/a-third...real-business/
                        Last edited by W. Rabbit; 9/02/2011 7:07pm, .

                        Comment


                          #13
                          The Power Balance bracelets won a "Shonky" in Australia last October.
                          Shonkys: the award that no company wants


                          Power Balance bands - which claim to increase an athlete's performance through increasing the natural energy flow - is simply just a rubber band bracelet with a plastic hologram, Choice said.
                          Choice said the bracelet, which is "endorsed by sporting pros" and sells "for a mere $60 alongside claims it somehow makes you stronger, more poised and just better. The band was tested at Choice under controlled lab conditions, which showed it did little else than empty purchasers' wallets".
                          So yeah Cprime is the same thing, but they're just being smarter...or were, they're all over scam.com's forum.

                          http://scam.com/showthread.php?t=127697&page=1

                          Consumer time bomb waiting to happen.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by W. Rabbit View Post
                            How would you guys handle a friend/training partner who was really deep into this stuff, making great money selling them, but also buying into the (very) questionable claims about the EM fields of the human body?

                            Similar to how I just won't argue politics or religion with certain people...is it a friendship faux pas to try to attack or debate the science of something that someone you know has already "bought in" to, even when it's maddening to you that you know the science well enough that you didn't really need to see their "research" to know it was quackery, like a cold fusion claim?
                            Usually in such cases I encourage skepticism on their part, give them the standard line about the party making the claim is the one responsible for proof, and tell them if I'm sure it's absolute bullshit. It's only a friendship faux pas if it's not much of a friendship. I care about my friends, and I don't want them to get scammed. And I expect them to feel the same towards me.

                            If it's a training partner, maybe mention bullshido that you both used to believe or talk about the aikido vs judo thing or Dillman etc and how people can get really convinced of things that end up not being true. Remind him that admitting a mistake is not weak, but clinging to an erroneous decision in the face of conclusive evidence is.

                            On the other hand if you mostly just want to get along with your training partner and aren't looking for much of a serious friendship, maybe just casually bag on him for believing in it, in a friendly way.

                            Then again I have trouble getting along with people so why am I answering this?

                            Comment


                              #15
                              I'm less angry about junk like this than the fake curatives out there. Although there seems to be a little undercurrent of "boosts health," they are mainly advertising performance gains, ergo I'm less irritated by the borderline fraud than I am that I haven't figured out a way to get idiots to give me money. This is infomercial level bullshit. If I were to get angry, it would be at the education establishment.
                              "Systema, which means, 'the system'..."

                              Originally posted by strikistanian
                              DROP SEIONAGI MOTHERFUCKER! Except I don't know Judo, so it doesn't work, and he takes my back.
                              Originally posted by Devil
                              Why is it so goddamn hard to find a video of it? I've seen videos I'm pretty sure are alien spacecraft. But still no good Krav.
                              Originally posted by Plasma
                              At the point, I must act! You see my rashguard saids "Jiu Jitsu vs The World" and "The World" was standing in front me teaching Anti-Grappling in a school I help run.
                              Originally posted by SoulMechanic
                              Thank you, not dying really rewarding in more ways than I can express.

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