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    the jab/cross

    when you execute a jap cross do you turn your shoulder into it? I was deeply boggled today when a BJJ guy told me im not supposed to turn into my jab/cross and remain in a front - shoulders facing forward position when i throw these strikes. I only stared blankly at him wondering if he was for real or yanking my chain. Then i remembered that i was a pirate and his ninja manipulation had no sway over me. Seriously though, can some BJJ guys clarify for me whether im a moron or this guy is mentaly retarded?
    I have niether the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manor of which I provide it.
    -A few good men

    As the internet turns - omega


    #2
    BJJ guys giving advice on stand-up? First time for everything I guess.:)

    If you're asking what I think you are, to me there is no real "right" answer. The more you turn your shoulder into the punch increases power and committment, but makes it harder to recover if you miss. You have to find your own balance point between power and safety.

    Personally I try not to go past square on my rear hand, leaning toward good power and good recovery over good+x power and good-x recovery.

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      #3
      Ask BJJ guys about grappling
      Ask Boxers about punching

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        #4
        I put my shoulder into it...its hell when you miss though.

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          #5
          When you put your shoulders into it, it's also easier to tuck your chin behind the shoulder for some protection. As long as you bring the arm back quickly, there really isn't a recovery issue as you can throw combinations with your shoulders square or with the lead shoulder up front. There is a trade-off between speed and power related to the use of shoulders, but better to hit with power than some flimsy jab which makes some cement head smile at you.

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            #6
            Everything posted is exactly what I would expect, and how I myself punch. I thought it funny that this guy who doesnt even train standing up with little to no striking (and no previous MA training) would say such a thing. I used to think BJJ guys were cool ;p
            I have niether the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manor of which I provide it.
            -A few good men

            As the internet turns - omega

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              #7
              Just a thought,

              Could it be that there's an advantage to throwing a less commited attack if your real intention is to take him down anyways. It just occured to me that maybe keeping squared is more important to a BJJ guy than landing a good right cross?

              I've never trained BJJ so I'm just curious. I mean, Vale Tudo guys seem to make all sorts of adjustments to their 'boxing' to compensate for certain other risks. Like overextending the elbow for example. If you in a boxing match it fine to go for as much range as you can where in a Vale Tudo match you might be asking to have your arm grabbed.

              opinions?
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                #8
                hmm, no.
                I have niether the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manor of which I provide it.
                -A few good men

                As the internet turns - omega

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                  #9
                  Then i remembered that i was a pirate and his ninja manipulation had no sway over me.
                  If you've already answered your own question, no need to start a thread.
                  The Wastrel - So attractive he HAS to be a woman.
                  - Pizdoff

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                    #10
                    Originally posted by Omar
                    Just a thought,

                    Could it be that there's an advantage to throwing a less commited attack if your real intention is to take him down anyways. It just occured to me that maybe keeping squared is more important to a BJJ guy than landing a good right cross?

                    I've never trained BJJ so I'm just curious. I mean, Vale Tudo guys seem to make all sorts of adjustments to their 'boxing' to compensate for certain other risks. Like overextending the elbow for example. If you in a boxing match it fine to go for as much range as you can where in a Vale Tudo match you might be asking to have your arm grabbed.

                    opinions?
                    Not so much an advantage as playing to a strength (or away from a weakness in the case of a grappler with limited stand-up skills). A good boxer should not partially commit to an attack.

                    It's very difficult to grab a boxers punch from distance. Attempting to do so is a good way to eat the next punch in the combo. At close range, things are a little different as it is easier to trap an arm.
                    Last edited by punchingdummy; 2/24/2004 8:24pm, .

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                      #11
                      Originally posted by FingerorMoon?
                      If you've already answered your own question, no need to start a thread.
                      But then how would I get my post count up? wtf man dont rain on my parade
                      I have niether the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manor of which I provide it.
                      -A few good men

                      As the internet turns - omega

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                        #12
                        Like overextending the elbow for example..
                        I've been told this is bad in general, as it increases the chance of injury. I keep my punches slightly bent (arm is not completely straight) - which decreases the range, but I can feel if I overextend, and it's not pleasant.

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                          #13
                          Re: the jab/cross

                          Originally posted by Deluxe247
                          when you execute a jap ...
                          :D

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                            #14
                            To some extent, it can depend on the range involved.

                            When boxing on the outside I tend to "point" my shoulder in, so that I am almost perpendicular to the opponent. Almost, but not completely. That allows some room to twist into the jab a bit.
                            When I throw the cross, I twist my torso into it suddenly so that, for an instant my shoulders go parallel, or even beyond.

                            When fighting close in, I keep my feet almost perpendicular, but twist the shoulders almost parallel. This allows for hook and uppper cuts and for short side to side mobility, bobbing and weaving.

                            It is possible that the BJJ guy had learned from a very formal instructor.

                            I once studied a style of karate (Myo Sim) that insisted that the shoulders remain square, as they would in a basic kata, with the result that all punches were arm punches. I asked an advance student why they did not use the torso in their punches.

                            The reply was: "you don't need that much power."
                            The vast Universe!
                            The Way of Aiki to to become
                            The light of all mankind
                            Opening all the world

                            --O Sensei

                            :gaygay:

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                              #15
                              Ok, lets clear up the "karate" square should crap:
                              What is taught is NOT explained as well as it should be.
                              You keep the shoulders square WITH the hips, the hips move into the punch, so do the shoulders, but the sholders NEVER mover MORE than the hips.
                              Your shoulder IS behind the punch, you hips moves first and then the shoulder.
                              Your taught to square the shoulder WITH the hips and move them with the hips and to NOT overextend the sholders BEYOND the hips.

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