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Dochter
2/26/2004 4:20pm,
This is the evil twin of Ronin's earlier thread.

There were several very good points brought up (primarily by Wastrel and Michael Descado, http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9506&perpage=20&pagenumber=11 ) as to why the reverse is actually true.

Along those lines some interesting comments were heard on MSNBC's Scarborough Country last night.

The topic, of course, was the success and controversy surrounding the release of Gibson's new film. The "expert panel" (that was how it was introduced) consisted of several chirch groups, a "right-wing media watch dog" and one apparantely secular individual.

There was (as in Ronin's thread) complaints about "discrimination" against christians. This was said on the heels of the very same individual talking about how over 94% of americans believe in god. This was immediately followed by a very derisive along the lines of "what these other people believe in I have no idea" (you kind of had to hear the tone and context).

One area of comment on the show, and what I primarily wanted to mention, was what was said about Andy Rooney's recent comments on Buchannan and Gibson.

Andy Rooney basically said that Buchannan and Gibson are a pair of nutjobs. His basis for this: one of them claims to talk to GOD about who is going to win the upcoming election and the other is a member of a Catholic splinter group that thinks the current Vatican is to liberal in its interpertation of the bible and christianity.

For this Rooney is getting slaughtered. That is absolutely ridiculous. How is he getting more flack than Buchannan did for his claims of discussing election results with GOD? How is he getting more flack than Gibson who's movie misrepresents both historical evidence and the bible itself?

Ridiculous. The reality of, at least, America is that the hostility is the other way around people.

Ronin
2/26/2004 4:40pm,
For Andy Rooney to be getting reamed for his OPINION is stupid.
The whole point is for everyone to respect everyones opinion.

Dochter
2/26/2004 4:56pm,
Actually his opinion is fairly synonymous with medical fact that people who claim to talk to god are in fact nutjobs (aka schizophrenics).

What is more appaling is that this nutjob in particular has published discriminatory views on just about every other race and religion (including catholocism), claims to talk to god and yet is still a frequent "political commentator" on cable news channels.

Liberal media conspiracy my ass.

Meteora
2/26/2004 5:09pm,
I glad I saw this thread cause today... I was told I was a devil worishpper (and I don't even look goth!) and going to hell unless I accepted Jesus. Well I told the bitch to mind her own fucking buisness (I was talking to a friend) and to kindly remove the bible from her ass.
I also had free tickets of the Mel Gibson movie pushed on to me from 6 different people.

My mother refuses to leave me alone on the whole religion thing and I've offically decided to no longer spare her feelings. Next time if she suggests I either A)Go to church B)Join the Christian Youth Group or C)SEE THAT FUCKING MOVIE, I will promptly yell her to and I quote "**** OFF YOU ZEALOUS BITCH!".

I don't really have a major problem with religion, it seems religion (almost always Christian) have a problem with me.

milwaukee cop
2/26/2004 5:12pm,
you better not tell your mother to **** off!, shame on you!

Meteora
2/26/2004 5:22pm,
Well she's losing her fucking mind, not the mother I once knew. Makes me scared of old age.

DJeter1234
2/27/2004 5:57pm,
when one of my favourite religouse school teachers from yesteryear went to college for the first time, one of her friends eventually (after a week or two) found out that she was a Jew, and asked to see her horns, whcih he assumed she was hiding under her hair. She had to pull her hair back and show scalp to prove to him they weren't there. So either he had a scalp fetish usually reserved to native americans in nineteenth century frontier stories or some cathalic schools (wher ethe male student had gone to HS) are fucked up

LLL
2/27/2004 6:01pm,
I'm not even reading this stuff, I'm just going to say that in my opinion ALL religions, gods, as well as comparable beliefs like horoscopes / wicca / magick / etc; are PURE ass. Thank you and good night.

Freddy
2/27/2004 6:28pm,
...god created man in his own image.
And man, being a gentleman, returned the favour.
----Rosseau

WingChun Lawyer
2/27/2004 7:30pm,
Gods, I love Brazil. No religious education in public schools here. And the hardcore christians can be dismissed with a sincere "**** off" since they are not actually your teachers.

Skummer
2/28/2004 5:45am,
Some quotes by founding fathers that relate to religious hostility...

"Religion I found to be without any tendency to inspire, promote, or confirm morality, serves principally to divide us and make us unfriendly to one another."--Benjamin Franklin

"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution." -James Madison

"But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed.--John Adams

Southpaw
2/28/2004 10:47am,
Good quotes.

All of the above were Masons...and considered themselves "Deists".

DJeter1234
2/28/2004 1:08pm,
a source would be nice, though. Considering the number of fake quotes i've heard saying how they were all christian, it owul dbe nice to be sure these were real, even if they sound like a deist might say them.

Skummer
2/28/2004 2:19pm,
Originally posted by DJeter1234
a source would be nice, though. Considering the number of fake quotes i've heard saying how they were all christian, it owul dbe nice to be sure these were real, even if they sound like a deist might say them.

Indeed. The John Adams quote is from a letter he wrote to one F.A. Van der Kamp in 1816. The other two are well-known quotes, but I can't find an actual source listed with them.

Tis an easy thing to google "quotes founding fathers religion" to find all manner of quotes by them on the subject though.

MichaelDescado
2/28/2004 2:31pm,
I went and saw The Passion of The Christ yesterday, and I wrote up a movie review about it. If you haven't seen it yet, read this before you go:

http://michaeldescado.tripod.com/stories/id33.html

Skummer
2/28/2004 2:35pm,
Here are some more I found while searching for sources on the others...

THOMAS JEFFERSON --
In a letter to Baron von Humboldt, 1813: "History I believe furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purpose."

The hocus-pocus phantasy of a God, like another
Cerberus, with one body and three heads, had its birth
and growth in the blood of thousands and thousands of
martyrs."
-- Jefferson s Works, Vol. IV, 360,
Randolph's ed.

"The Christian God can be easily pictured as virtually the same as the many ancient gods of past civilizations. The Christian god is a three headed monster; cruel, evil and capricious. If one wishes to know more of this raging, three headed, beast-like god, one only needs to look at the caliber of the people who say they serve him. The are always of two classes: fools and hypocrites." --- source unknown


JAMES MADISON --
From "A Memorial and Remonstrance", 1785: "What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not."