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wikidbounce
8/11/2010 9:59pm,
YouTube- Staff Tackles and Chokes "Deaf" Shopper suspected of Shoplifting (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fRv--C_vao)

Saw this on reddit: Man leaves store and sets off alarm, pays no attention to alarm. Security guard chokes him out. Oh yeah, the guy didn't hear the alarm because he is deaf. Frantic deaf friend tries to show receipt.

At BJJ last night our instructor mentioned that with the LEO training with us he has to teach even taking the back differently so that it doesn't involve even the start of a choke. Here chokes can be considered lethal force so he adjusts LEO/Security training to avoid problems with their work.

gregaquaman
8/12/2010 12:50am,
well not exactly choked out but still knowing a side mount would have been handy.

I try not to take people down by the neck if I can avoid it and when I do I normaly explain to everybody waching that I do not really have a choke on.

It just sets them off.

But of course if deaf guy hasnt stolen anything any force would have lead to a law suit.

Finds comitting my friends

C0WB0Y
8/12/2010 3:03am,
So sad & completely heartbreaking...

Prince Vlad
8/12/2010 6:18am,
I'm not usually the type who agrees with taking people to court over minor assaults but I honestly hope that deaf man sues the **** out of those security guys.

DCS
8/12/2010 6:41am,
More than 2:30 to handcuff a non resisting suspect. The security guy deserves a medal.

babo78
8/12/2010 7:30am,
God I hope they sue their asses off. My imagination wondered off to...deaf dude breaking out of crappy choke sub, spin to put him in full-guard, and quickly triangle choke him out.

money
8/12/2010 10:01am,
I wonder what happened before the video that lead to the physical confrontation. Did the security guys try to talk to them first or just tackle the guy from behind?

gregaquaman
8/12/2010 10:39am,
I can imagine.

Man walks out of store
Beeper goes off.
Security guard runs up."Excuse me sir can you please acompany me back into the store"
No response man keeps walking.
Security guard."Hey you come back here! or I will arrest you."
Still nothing from man.
Security grabs man who says nothing but grunts and gestures voilently with his hands.
Security thinking he is being attacked goes into poor grappling sequence.

mike321
8/12/2010 11:08am,
What should happen when police arrive:

1) Did anyone in your security detail see him take something?
No.
2) You tackled him because your beeping device made noise and he walked away?
Yes.
3) You have the right to remain silent...

The deaf part just demonstrates that the shopper wasn't trolling the security, but unless your a cop YOU DON'T TOUCH PEOPLE UNLESS YOU SEE THE CRIME.

gregaquaman
8/12/2010 11:12am,
You have the right to remain silent.
LOL

WhiteShark
8/12/2010 12:55pm,
What is the deal with the guy in the yellow vest who shows up late and starts screaming?

Ming Loyalist
8/12/2010 2:22pm,
major lawsuit time. those security guards will lose their jobs for sure, and rightly so.

Hertzyscowicz
8/12/2010 2:29pm,
From the video description, I got the impression that the guy who shot this knew ahead of time that the guy being choked out was deaf, and I think at least some non-deaf people had figured out that the guy was deaf. So, I'm scratching my head as to why nobody stepped up and said "Hey, take it easy, the guy's deaf, he didn't hear the alarm."

Apparently, it isn't enough for the alarm to go off for the mall security to apprehend a suspected shoplifter, but what about the person who set off the alarm walking off, ignoring the security guys telling them to stop? And before anyone flames me, I understand that the security people were going way overboard even if it had been a genuine shoplifter.

gregaquaman
8/12/2010 2:48pm,
unfortunatly you are allowed to ignore security guards if you havent stolen anything.

Yes it shits me too.
It is all about finds commiting which basicly means as a member of the public you have to see the offence to make an arrest.

This also means that 99% of security loss prevention make arrests that are doodgy

wikidbounce
8/12/2010 8:08pm,
I was under the impression that you can not legally detain someone against their will, that would be for the police to take care of.

From back when I was working in Retail it was policy not to follow anyone once they left the store, the video surveliance was given to the police to follow up.

mike321
8/12/2010 8:20pm,
unfortunatly you are allowed to ignore security guards if you havent stolen anything.

Yes it shits me too.
It is all about finds commiting which basicly means as a member of the public you have to see the offence to make an arrest.

This also means that 99% of security loss prevention make arrests that are doodgy

I think we are fortunate that generally civilians need to witness a crime to make an arrest. It seems like the common sense position. Only sworn officers should detain people on a precautionary basis, and then under a proper legal framework. Also, I think it is a good first job for potential future LEOs. They get some experience with the law as a civilian, learn to handle themselves without weapons, and if you screw up you probably won't go on to be a sworn officer. When I worked retail, the loss prevention crew (shoplift catchers) had to witness selection of merchandise by the suspect, constant surveillance while in the store to make sure they didn't put it down, and the suspect had to leave the store I believe this is slightly more than the law required but avoided lawsuits.