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Necroyunus
7/06/2010 3:06am,
it happens to be one of the best guys in our bjj class has broken his shoulder yesterday.

well, the thing is this is the 4th broken shoulder that happened in last 6 months.(maybe more maybe less but around 6 months) + an arm injury

And all of those guys are over blue belt level(except one girl, but she s also very close to blue belt too)
Since i m in beijing and there are not so many high level belts in here (highest one is a purple belt) these guys are all the "high level guys" in the gym.
If it were the white belts that was getting injured, i would just say "oh ok they dont know what they re doing so it happened" but its not like that.

It may be a little strange question (i m serious tho) but do you think could it be a problem about something we are doing?
We don't roll %100 percent often too. We like doing flowing rolls more.

How often do you get injuries in your gym?
What kind of serious injuries occured recently in the place you train?
Are shoulder injuries so common for bjj training? what kind of injuries are common for each sport and what is the best way to avoid them?

hpr
7/06/2010 3:36am,
The orthopedist who operated on my shoulder seemed to know all about BJJ and I got the vibe that most BJJ related injuries he dealt with were shoulder injuries. However I have no statistics and his clinic is closely related to the organization Finnish BJJ Union had the group policy from for a couple of years, so no evidence there.

Most of the more serious injuries I've seen and heard of have been shoulders and knees. Knees from awkward takedowns and occasional leg locking mishaps. Shoulders on the other hand tend to get damaged by just rolling and scrambles and less with submissions.

How have the shoulder injuries happened in your gym? Are there common denominators like not tapping early enough / people are cranking submissions too fast? Are you doing good shoulder warm-ups before rolling? Do you do enough shoulder strengthening exercises?

Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs
7/06/2010 3:45am,
I'm starting to think that it is an ego thing:
- they refuse to tap when stuck in a lock, still thinking that they can escape.
or
- their opponent cranks a submission from 0 to 100 in 1 second so that they haven't got the time to tap.

Or are the injuries substained during the shoots/takedowns? In that case train more ukemi.


I had my calfbone broken when an absolute noob jumped guard wrongly and hit with his full weight the inside of my knee --> 2 operations and six months out. But that happens, it is still a combat sport you're training in.

Necroyunus
7/06/2010 3:49am,
All these injuries happened when people were rolling but not from submissions.And we don't have those guys who doesn't want to tap in our gym. Instructor and the students all care about this. And no there are not many people who want to crank submissions.
Instructor really discourages people from these kind of things. (for sure there would be exceptions, but the people got injured are not in those exceptions)

For shoulder warm-ups before training, well we dont do that to be honest. After the class we just start rolling (actually rolling is also a part of the class being observed by instructors)
for shoulder strengthening exercises, well all of the guys who were injured are the people with strong and athletic bodies. I m sure they must be doing it themselves but inside the class, no.

Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs
7/06/2010 4:27am,
...For shoulder warm-ups before training, well we dont do that to be honest. After the class we just start rolling (actually rolling is also a part of the class being observed by instructors)
for shoulder strengthening exercises, well all of the guys who were injured are the people with strong and athletic bodies. I m sure they must be doing it themselves but inside the class, no.

They can have overtrained their body in powertraining and bodybuilding making it prown to injuries.
Remember that arm, shoulder and pecks are the fastest to show muscle growth, so there is a tendency to overtrain those muscles if they have not the right supervision in a gym, which put strainght on the bones.
The shoulderbone is complex in structure and not so strong in comparison with other bones, so if it's already strained, a medium impact can make it brake.

Maybe you should pm Emevas to this thread, he knows more about muscle gainment then me. I only perform deadlifts on other BJJers while rolling :laughing6

hpr
7/06/2010 4:52am,
What Zendokan said. Plus warm ups before rolling is heartily recommended, because you never know what position you end up in even in a flowing roll/drill.

_V_
7/06/2010 4:20pm,
- their opponent cranks a submission from 0 to 100 in 1 second so that they haven't got the time to tap.



This was the case with my injury. I had been working with the same guy for an hour and thought we had come to an understanding that you have to give people a chance to tap before the injury point. I guess I was wrong. I've been out 6 weeks now with a torn rotator cuff because of it.

DKJr
7/06/2010 4:26pm,
I'm recovering from a Torn calf from holding onto mount and getting my foot trapped/twisted. There's definitely some weird injuries, I've seen shoulder, wrist, back, all types of muscles, elbow. The main thing I myself have is tendonitis. Best thing is RICE, warming up, and stretching. I'm definitely going back to yoga, it's 100% worth it if you want to keep training hard.

Also higher belts tend to spend more time training, and are prone to more injuries. I usually get injured training over the summer since I can go 5 days a week.

Pandinha
7/06/2010 7:07pm,
Both shoulders injured here. I've been out over a year due to my right shoulder separating.

HereBeADragon
7/06/2010 9:28pm,
I was assisting my teacher with some new students doing some throws. The guy I was working with straightened up on me instead of bending so when I fell instead of rolling away I went straight down on my shoulder, it might be worth mentioning that my teachers school is very spartan. Its a room he built on the back of his house and there are no mats just cement with a carpet over it. I dislocated and separated my shoulder. Luckly with helot I was back to about 80% use of that arm in a month.

Now in my own school the jiu-jitsu program was run by a very good instructor and injuries were fairly minimal. The worst that I can recall was an ankle injury I got and one student got his ribs compressed. Reason for this low injury rate? In my oppinion the low injury rate was because the instructor focused a lot on proper ukemi technique and guard passing skills.

If you could post a few examples of how these injuries occured it might help pinpoint the problem.

Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs
7/07/2010 1:41am,
This was the case with my injury. I had been working with the same guy for an hour and thought we had come to an understanding that you have to give people a chance to tap before the injury point. I guess I was wrong. I've been out 6 weeks now with a torn rotator cuff because of it.

I've learned a few things:
- complete noobs are the most dangerous to train with.
- Judoka and Wrestlers jump to the submission --> tap early and really ram the 'position before submission'-mantra into their skull.
- If you are really tired and someone suggest a 'last roll', let it slide. Most freak accidents happen in the 'last roll' (see sambosteve's legbreak thread for example).

battlefields
7/07/2010 1:49am,
Anyone roll with the guy that eases the sub on so you have ample time to tap, so you do, but then he quickly cranks it before letting go? **** I hate that guy. I told him repeatedly, dude, I have tapped, just release, but he is Asian and either uses the language barrier to be a dick, or really doesn't get that he is being a dick and the barrier prevents him from knowing it.

And, yeah, I'm a 2year n00b, but when a really n00b n00b thinks they are the ****, they cause injuries. My knee is a current casualty.

hpr
7/07/2010 1:56am,
- If you are really tired and someone suggest a 'last roll', let it slide. Most freak accidents happen in the 'last roll' (see sambosteve's legbreak thread for example).

THIS. Zendokan my friend, you are wise beyond your years. 10% of my injuries have come from the first rolling while still not quite warmed up and the rest 90% from the last "I'm dead tired, but sure, let's take it easy" rolling. Actually the only injury that came between those was my shoulder exploding.

Hiro Protagonist
7/07/2010 2:19am,
Also, while my grappling experiences are fairly small, I would suggest this to everyone, ESPECIALLY n00bs:

Go and hit the gym the same as you hit the mat!!!

If you have little time for training, go and lift the iron, don't go and fight.

Build a base for a strong body, and keep smaller/freaky/idiotic injuries away.

hpr
7/07/2010 2:35am,
Also, while my grappling experiences are fairly small, I would suggest this to everyone, ESPECIALLY n00bs:

Go and hit the gym the same as you hit the mat!!!

If you have little time for training, go and lift the iron, don't go and fight.

Build a base for a strong body, and keep smaller/freaky/idiotic injuries away.

I disagree. If you have little time for training do what you want to do most, don't just spend your whole time preparing for it.

Hiro Protagonist
7/07/2010 2:42am,
Depnds, IMO. As I said, this is something I usually recommend n00bs.

I mean, I have seen people vomitting after warm-ups, and seen ligaments torn simply by throwing a bad punch at the bag.

Most of that crap could have been eluded with a bit more "pushing zhe iron".