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iopyud
6/23/2010 9:14am,
So are Judo sweeps in any form illegal? I'm talking about minor sweeps that look like Sasae Tsuri Komi Ashi or something, not Gake or reaps.

Are they legal to throw from the clinch? Or do they register as a kick?

It's been bothering me for a while.

Lampa
6/23/2010 9:44am,
I believe that, first, USKBA sanctioned MT events are a little more anal retentive about what is a legal clinch throw than other MT events.

Also, I know most of these rules as a reporter and due to conversations I've had with my coach, so it's a little second hand. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

The rule of thumb is that your foot needs to stay on the ground and legal throws would involve rotating your opponent over your foot, or just tossing him using redirection of the upper body.

You can't reap the leg say, on a kick catch, but you can put your opponent off balance and then strike the leg and it's big on the score cards if he falls. The distinction is sometimes ambiguous.

The USKBA, especially with officials in NY and NJ, are very strict about no picking someone up from a body lock. From what I understand, places off my beat allow some of those throws.

Kovacs
6/23/2010 11:27am,
So are Judo sweeps in any form illegal? I'm talking about minor sweeps that look like Sasae Tsuri Komi Ashi or something, not Gake or reaps.

Are they legal to throw from the clinch? Or do they register as a kick?

It's been bothering me for a while.

You should be fine if you vaguely hide them as a kick, you're stretching the rules but are just keeping within them. It depends on the ref too, I've seen some penalise it and some ignore and even score Judo throws, sweeps etc.

Torakaka
6/23/2010 1:43pm,
I don't speak judo, but the rules for muaythai are that you can't do any throws that go over the hip, trip with the back of the leg, or lift the opponent straight off the ground. You are also not allowed to do any sort of takedown where you land on top of your opponent. You are also not allowed to do any kind of foot to foot sweeps.

Takedowns that are allowed include dumps which go over the front of the leg where the "tripping" leg moves directly after the throw, kicking the supporting leg on a caught kick, or tipping (not tripping) as a counter to knee strikes.

iopyud
6/24/2010 7:46am,
Ah thanks guys.

ronaldk
6/24/2010 12:11pm,
is there any kickboxing that allows all sorts of takedowns? that could interesting to watch, like kickboxing-wrestling. it'd essentially be MMA with no groundwork. that could be pretty cool.

TheMightyMcClaw
6/24/2010 2:02pm,
I don't speak judo, but the rules for muaythai are that you can't do any throws that go over the hip, trip with the back of the leg, or lift the opponent straight off the ground. You are also not allowed to do any sort of takedown where you land on top of your opponent. You are also not allowed to do any kind of foot to foot sweeps.

Takedowns that are allowed include dumps which go over the front of the leg where the "tripping" leg moves directly after the throw, kicking the supporting leg on a caught kick, or tipping (not tripping) as a counter to knee strikes.
Seriously? I should probably stop doing bodylock pickups, then.

TheMightyMcClaw
6/24/2010 2:06pm,
is there any kickboxing that allows all sorts of takedowns? that could interesting to watch, like kickboxing-wrestling. it'd essentially be MMA with no groundwork. that could be pretty cool.

I'm surprised there's someone on this board who's never heard of San Da/San Shou:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3l71pjVU4II
Best thing to come out of China since the repeating crossbow.

Hooded Justice
6/24/2010 3:05pm,
I'm surprised there's someone on this board who's never heard of San Da/San Shou
Best thing to come out of China since the repeating crossbow.

I was wondering if I was going to be the first to bring up sanda/san shou. And also repeating crossbow? Not gunna go with the stirrup or even gunpowder? Chicken fried rice for god sake!

dex
6/24/2010 7:46pm,
When I was training in in Thailand, I saw throws from a low grip around the hips which often lead to one opponent landing on another. It was shown to me in clinch training as an intentional throw in which the thrower was essentially walking over the top of or rotating the receiver over, other times in the ring I saw it used as both fighters were positioning themselves to throw and the mess that resulted was a bodylock throw. I was only there for four months odd and I can't speak thai but it didn't look like it was a penalty.

I also remember at one stage on a video somewhere seeing Malaipet use what appeared to be a high crotch throw in a fight where he caught a knee underneath the hip and lifted the opponent off the ground to a throw. Not sure what ruleset or where he was fighting.

this however doesn't clarify an answer...just muddying the waters for interest sake I guess.

Torakaka
6/24/2010 10:19pm,
Seriously? I should probably stop doing bodylock pickups, then.


It is technically illegal, but all sorts of illegal take downs are gotten away with in muaythai.

Squerlli
6/24/2010 11:12pm,
I've seen tall dudes do body lock pick ups to shorter opponents in Lumpini and not get **** for it. Same thing in Dutch fight cards as well. USA I'm not sure though, but the body lock, lift and hip throw is pretty standard.

EDIT: Damn it, beat me to it. Basically what Kid Spatula said.

iopyud
6/25/2010 9:21am,
That sounds great. Can't spar yet, I'll have to wait and see if I can even attempt something... if I could, I still have to avoid injuries for both parties.

Fortunately, we use Judo mats. I think they're called: "No Sprawl" AMIRITE LOPLOLOOLOlelelHUEHUEHUE

Lebell
6/25/2010 12:37pm,
That sounds great. Can't spar yet, I'll have to wait and see if I can even attempt something... if I could, I still have to avoid injuries for both parties.

Fortunately, we use Judo mats. I think they're called: "No Sprawl" AMIRITE LOPLOLOOLOlelelHUEHUEHUE

Uhm, im going to assume you're not a troll (so far im still not sure as your other thread is retarded.) but uhm..why train MT on a tatami?

Torakaka
6/25/2010 1:04pm,
my advice is don't go into muaythai training thinking about how you're going to use your judo in sparring. Try and learn a little muaythai and use that in sparring. It's the only way you're going to improve.

Lebell
6/25/2010 1:09pm,
my advice is don't go into muaythai training thinking about how you're going to use your judo in sparring. Try and learn a little muaythai and use that in sparring. It's the only way you're going to improve.

Very good advice.

When you're new to something, just accept that, don't try to stay in your comfortzone by thinking or saying:oh yeah but in judo we..
You're not at judo, are you?
You're at MT, so...learn basic MT and focus on that, instead of ruining your concentration by imagining what a judoka would do.
Ask yourself if you really, honestly want to learn another type of martial art, or that you rather want to convince yourself of something else.