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ATAMAN
11/10/2002 10:25pm,
is there any truly reputable ninjisu instructors? i really am trying hard to find one.

Today impossible, Tomarrow Possible
Grand Master H.U. Lee

aikitattoo
11/10/2002 10:28pm,
There is so much debate on this, it is really hard to say. Most people will say that since there is no TRUE ninjutsu, there is of course no TRUE instructors either. It really all depends on what you are looking for. IMHO, Stephen Hayes seems to be the best of the ones I know about. Perhaps checking his association, and people who have learned from him, would be a good idea. I personally wouldn't mind going to his compound for a while...

Greese
11/10/2002 10:29pm,
Not here in Springfield. That is for damn sure.

ATAMAN
11/10/2002 11:11pm,
i understand that much. hey when do you guys do judo at smsu?

Today impossible, Tomarrow Possible
Grand Master H.U. Lee

aruv
11/11/2002 12:02am,
There is one true ninjitsu teacher... he is (Drum roll please)...............

Ashida Kim find him at www.ashidakim.com

Spineflow
11/11/2002 12:05am,
Check Genbukan, Bujinkan and Jininkan schools. I trian in the Genbukan. Alot of are training Is self defence, we don't do all that stealth and warefare stuff. It is a big part of the art but not a part of the basic ciriculum

Gezere
11/11/2002 9:26am,
The Xkans do have claim to ninjutsu but what is taught mainly comes form other non-ninjutsu ryuha.

The Tenshin Katori Shinto Ryu also teaches ninjutsu.

ANY school claiming to teach KOGA RYU is a FRAUD!!!

Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invinsible Asia) Emporer of Baji!!! THE FIRST LINE OF DEFENSE AGAINST THE UNITED AUSSIE FRONT!!

9chambers
11/11/2002 10:23am,
I am pretty sure that most of the sources they use to study ninjutsu are public record. I might be wrong but I think that any scroll that has any legitimacy to it that Masaaki Hatsumi (34th Grandmaster of Togakure Ryu Ninjutsu) or Hayes or anyone is using as a source has to be public record. It would be a historical document and a national treasure. I've seen illustrations from those scrolls in their books. It might be tough but I am sure you could get your hands on a transcript of each of them somewhere. I doubt there is much written on them though.

Oral tradition is hard to really pin down but there are historical ninja. Do research on Hanzo Hattori, Kato Danzo and .. what was that other guy. Momochi Sandayu. They credit Cho Gyokko as being the early inspiration for ninjutsu. I'd say go to the library of congress page here:

http://lcweb.loc.gov/homepage/lchp.html

.. and find out what reputable books or manuscripts are connected to those people. Also, try doing some Internet searches on them if you want. I'd be interested in what you find. Please post it here.

p.s.

Here are the different arts that Masaaki Hatsumi claims (in his book "Ninjutsu History and Tradition") are part of the ninjutsu tradition:

1. Seishin Teki Kyoyo (spiritual refinement)
2. Tai Jutsu (unarmed combat)
3. Ninja Ken (ninja sword)
4. Bo Jutsu (stick and staff fighting)
5. Shuriken Jutsu (throwing blades)
6. Yari Jutsu (spear fighting)
7. Naginata Jutsu (halbred fighting)
8. Kusari Gama (chain and sickle weapon)
9. Kayaku Jutsu (fire and explosives)
10. Henso Jutsu (disguise and impersonation)
11. Shinobi Iri (stealth and entering methods)
12. Ba Jutsu (horsemanship)
13. Sui Ren (water training)
14. Bo Ryaku (strategy)
15. Cho Ho (espionage)
16. Inton Jutsu (escape and concealment)
17. Ten Mon (meteorology)
18. Chi Mon (geography)

* also kyojitsu tenkan ho (use all advantages philosophy)


Dr. Masaaki Hatsumi is:

* 34th Soke of Togakure Ryu ninjutsu, originally founded by Daisuke Togakure
* 28th Soke of Gyokko ryu koshijutsu, originally founded by Hakuunsai Tozawa
* 28th Soke of Kukishin ryu happo hikenjutsu, originally founded by Izumo Kanja Yoshiteru
* 26th Soke of Shinden fudo ryu dakentaijutsu, originally founded by Izumo Kanji Yoshiteru
* 18th Soke of Koto ryu koppojutsu, originally founded by Sandayu Momochi
* 18th Soke of Gikan ryu koppojutsu, originally founded by Sonyu Hangan Gikanbo, lord of Kawachi
* 17th Soke of Takagi yoshin ryu jutaijutsu, originally founded by Oriuemon Shigenobu Takagi
* 14th Soke of Kumogakure ryu ninpo, originally founded by Heinaizaemon Ienaga Iga, who adopted the name Komagakure Hoshi

There are some names listed there for your research as well. If you really want a legitimate education in Ninjutsu you might try looking up primary sources that expand upon the names of the individuals and arts listed above. Hope that helps a little.


>> Perhaps it was because I had an inherent skill for the science and never deviated from natural principles. - Miyamoto Musashi 1643

Edited by - 9chambers on November 11 2002 09:36:17

9chambers
11/11/2002 10:48am,
NOTE: One of the scrolls used is "Ninjutsu Hiketsu Bun" (A hand-written scroll by Toshitsugu Takamatsu, the 33rd grandmaster of Togakure Ryu Ninjutsu)

This would be Hatsumi's teacher .. I've also heard this referred to as "The Tiger Scroll" somewhere, I think. There is something mentioned about the "Jewwl Tiger School" too.

NOTE: Hanzo Hattori was a ninja advisor to Shogun Ieyasu Tokugawa according to historical documents. Some of his exploits are recorded.

- - - #CORRECTION ::

The essay on the scroll above is transcribed by Hatsumi in his book "Ninjutsu, History and Tradition" on pages: 3-5.

The Tiger Scroll is a whole other scroll I think. I am pretty sure I saw a book called "The Tiger Scroll" published by Masaaki Hatsumi for a limited time back in the 80s. I never had a chance to get it. - not to be confused with "The Tiger Scroll of the Koga Ninja" which I believe was written by Ashida Kim under the name, "Jay Sensei"

Edited by - 9chambers on November 11 2002 10:22:47

oce
11/11/2002 11:43am,
ANY school claiming to teach KOGA RYU is a FRAUD!!!

That goes for Iga Ryu too, doesn't it?

The bottom line is this: I've concluded if you really want to get anything close to true Ninjutsu -- you're not going to find it here in the states. If you REALLY want it, you'd go to Japan and train with some Hatsumi's personal Japanese students (or Hatsumi himself), and try to keep an otherwise low profile. I don't think Hatsumi or his truely close students, who can be considered "ninja," would ever publicize themselves anymore then they had to. Of course, makes you wonder why Hatsumi said anything about his training or publicized/created the Bujinkan to begin with. In all honesty, I think he just wanted to make a buck -- and I don't blame him. He wanted to market something that was big, but try to keep it real at the same time. As far as the basic elements of Ninjutsu go, I think he's done a pretty good job. However, I don't think there are very many, if any, good Bujinkan dojos here in the states because all the instructors are out to be world class ninja masters, sell their home video set, or some ****. I don't think Hatsumi appreciates that, so he just gives them the basics of the art (and I, for one, don't fucking blame him). The Taijutsu, the night training, etc. Stuff which is better than a lot of the stuff out there, but isn't really Ninjutsu. Oh yeah, and I don't trust that hairy ************, Stephen Hayes, any further than I could throw him.

Then again, I could just be paranoid. Oh well.




Edited by - oce on November 11 2002 10:46:08

Gezere
11/11/2002 12:28pm,
>That goes for Iga Ryu too, doesn't it?

No. All the active ninjutsu ryuha come form the IGA region. All ninjutsu ryuha from koga (actually KOKA) are dead, last recognized practioner as Seiko Fujita and his claims were questioned.

Also anyone just claiming KOGA RYU NINJUTSU is an IDIOT!!! IGA and KOGA denote the reigon of orgin NOT the name of the ryuha.

Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invinsible Asia) Emporer of Baji!!! THE FIRST LINE OF DEFENSE AGAINST THE UNITED AUSSIE FRONT!!

Miguksaram
11/11/2002 3:39pm,
Shihan Felix Vasquez out of Ridgewood, New York. He practices Bujinkai (sp) Ninjitsu. As for those who think this might be bunk, he is a Federal Bounty Hunter, so his techniques are tried in the streets. He is a very nice gentleman and a fun guy to part with.

Jeremy M. Talbott
http://www.homestead.com/koreanma/index.html
http://www.geocities.com/jns1994/MSA.html

Groganer
11/11/2002 7:17pm,
Check out:

http://www.fullautumnmoon.com/

I've actually trained here. I wasn't interested in a few of the philosophies he had going on, but he is a great teacher and seems to come from a pretty respectable line. Their black belts typically train 6-8 years before reaching black, and they're very good.

ninjamike
11/11/2002 9:32pm,
Try www.mbdojo.com . It's a Bujinkan school located in St. Louis. I think there is a branch of it in KC, which would be closer to you being in Springfield. You might email the guy at the above website address and ask where the KC branch is.

Freddy
11/11/2002 9:43pm,
Theres not many "authenticic" intructors here. Ashida Kim is probably one of the worst fake teachers out there. There are many more. Best to check Hayes or go to Japan and learn from Hatsumi.

PEACE!

Gezere
11/11/2002 9:48pm,
Err Groganer,

That school is NOT authentic ninjutsu. The history of that school has been the subject of debate for quite some time

Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invinsible Asia) Emporer of Baji!!! THE FIRST LINE OF DEFENSE AGAINST THE UNITED AUSSIE FRONT!!