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View Full Version : Josh Koscheck and Paul Daley - Douchebags of the Month



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Drake LaMancha
5/10/2010 8:50am,
I hate cheaters on all sports and games, with one exception 1 player video games because I wanto to see the story too. There is no difference between this form of cheating and other styles of cheating, they are all cheap and crappy ways to get a win.

Zapruder
5/10/2010 8:51am,
So, so many pushups.

AND the douche must flow....

bobyclumsyninja
5/10/2010 8:56am,
Taking a dive, as it were, is fucking lame. Moreso in mma which is, to me, rightly held up as a bastion of honersble conflict.

Not putting on my Mr Rogers cardigan or anything, but saku, fedor, and other greats are/were very classy in their dispositions. The UFC has built it's wretched self into a drama machine. TUF is to mma what Jerry springer is/was to Investigative journalism.

It's the reason I usually watch anything before I'd sit through their events. Dana's doing a great disservice to mma, along with some of the douchebags he pushes. I miss Pride.

Mtripp
5/10/2010 10:10am,
The question isn't whether or not we see injury faking in other sports. It's whether or not we should tolerate it in this one.

And the answer to that is obvious; I watch, train, and judge MMA for many reasons, but largely because it's not Soccer, Basketball, or any other sport that penalizes you for playing rough and rewards you for falling down and crying.

The problem is, and it is my core question:

IF it is accepted in so many other sports, and clearly it is, HOW do you keep it out of this one?

Snake Plissken
5/10/2010 10:49am,
The problem is, and it is my core question:

IF it is accepted in so many other sports, and clearly it is, HOW do you keep it out of this one?
I wouldn't say it is accepted, however many players will flop around to accentuate what they perceive as on-going, unnoticed flagrant fouling. The flopper is trying to get the ref to look his way more often and with one ref for 22 soccer players, there is a greater chance the ref won't see constant fouling.

In fighting it is 1 ref watching 2 fighters so less goes unnoticed.

In boxing, it is easier for a ref to see constant holding and hitting or low blows so sometimes you will see a fighter overact when they take a groin shot or thumb in the eye to get a few extra seconds of rest and have a point taken from the other guy. The ref will remember that last round he JUST warned the guy so obviously "the guy doesn't respect me so I'll show him!" and pull the trigger on a point snatch.

Main difference is in most boxing matches you have 10-12 round to make up for that lost point and in MMA you only have 3-5 so the penalty is greater. I think it is and will be the exception rather then the rule.

Koscheck and Daley reminded me of Haugen and Pazienza with all the trash talk and genuine dislike for one another before and after the fight.

It is Fake
5/10/2010 10:51am,
The problem is, and it is my core question:

IF it is accepted in so many other sports, and clearly it is, HOW do you keep it out of this one?

It depends on your definition of accepted. IMO it isn't accepted in other sports. Just like MMA there is really nothing you can do about it and ridicule is about all that can be done. Hell, rule tweaking doesn't work.

MrJ
5/10/2010 12:48pm,
From UFC.com

The sport is reaching a level now where professionalism and sportsmanship is a must for it to stay at the top of American sports culture. Unfortunately now that there is decent money to be made the martial artist will be placed on the back burner and the athlete will be brought to the forefront. Coaches and trainers will allow this to happen because their guy is making them money.

Unlike Japan which will take action at the club level. Aoki was removed from his position as a coach at his club in a public manner. This showed that his trainers cared about the image of the sport more than the individuals accomplishments.


Taking a dive, as it were, is fucking lame. Moreso in mma which is, to me, rightly held up as a bastion of honersble conflict.

Not putting on my Mr Rogers cardigan or anything, but saku, fedor, and other greats are/were very classy in their dispositions. The UFC has built it's wretched self into a drama machine. TUF is to mma what Jerry springer is/was to Investigative journalism.

It's the reason I usually watch anything before I'd sit through their events. Dana's doing a great disservice to mma, along with some of the douchebags he pushes. I miss Pride.

I don’t approve of these incidents where fighters pull idiotic stunts on camera such as Daley hitting Koschek after the bell or Jason Miller’s stupid antics after Strikeforce Nashville. I don’t want MMA compared to pro wrestling. Good that Daley was cut from UFC, I am not interested in disrespectful or unsportsmanlike (or criminal) conduct in MMA. What is next, some soap-opera style storyline about feuds between fighters, hitting each other with folding chairs at ringside? **** that garbage..

UpaLumpa
5/10/2010 1:07pm,
Give me a break. Daley went for an illegal knee with serious intent. That knee may have only been a glancing blow but it didn't just whiff air and even an apparently glancing blow can have an effect. I also don't doubt that Daley was eye-gouging throughout, he had to be working something when he should have been working take down defense and he clearly didn't use that time appropriately.

Also, **** Daley. You spend more than a month insulting a guy and he says something so horrible in the last thirty seconds that you can't keep your head on right? Grow up and GTFO. You had 15 minutes to hit the guy, should have done it then.

Neither Hardy nor Daley earned their title shots or contender bouts and I'm glad one of them is gone.

Cuchulain
5/10/2010 1:37pm,
Neither Hardy nor Daley earned their title shots or contender bouts and I'm glad one of them is gone.

That's something you have to blame Joe Silva and Dana White for not the fighters (or in this case Kos requested the Daley fight.) By accepting the fights they did it merely proves their willingness to take on the best.

UpaLumpa
5/10/2010 2:08pm,
By accepting the fights they did it merely proves their willingness to take on the best.

Their performances also demonstrate their apparent unwillingness to train the skills they need to in order to compete with the best.

Cuchulain
5/10/2010 2:57pm,
Their performances also demonstrate their apparent unwillingness to train the skills they need to in order to compete with the best.

Not unwillingness, just a serious lack of wrestling in mainstream british culture means that they haven't been training to execute and defend takedowns against D1 wrestlers from their early teens putting them at a severe dissadvantage against fighters who specialise in it (Koscheck, GSP)

edit: Hardy is currently on an intensive wrestling sabbatical and Daley actually defended reasonably well against a couple of shots considering.

TheRuss
5/10/2010 7:52pm,
Of course it happens in Football.

Punters take dives all the time.....

Crucial difference: Punters leave their legs hanging in the air to draw actual penalties, not to pretend one happened when it didn't. The disincentive to that one is less formal: when a player actually does manage to get their hand on a punt, they've basically got carte blanche to crush the punter too.

In any case, in terms of MMA, my understanding is that we're off to a decent start, in that Koscheck didn't get the extra point after the ref consulted video replay.

Mtripp
5/10/2010 8:20pm,
Crucial difference: Punters leave their legs hanging in the air to draw actual penalties, not to pretend one happened when it didn't. The disincentive to that one is less formal: when a player actually does manage to get their hand on a punt, they've basically got carte blanche to crush the punter too.

In any case, in terms of MMA, my understanding is that we're off to a decent start, in that Koscheck didn't get the extra point after the ref consulted video replay.

Actually I have seen punters dive trying to "sell" the penalty.

Moreover, unlike trying to block the punt, there is NO excuse to throw the knee. The man is down on all fours. Even if the call had stood, the bottom line is, he threw an illegal knee. No knee no call. Yes, he sucked so bad he missed, but he still threw an illegal knee.

Whatever happened after that, he had only himself to blame.

TheRuss
5/10/2010 8:33pm,
Actually I have seen punters dive trying to "sell" the penalty.

If you say so, but it really is not an issue in the sport in general.


Moreover, unlike trying to block the punt, there is NO excuse to throw the knee. The man is down on all fours. Even if the call had stood, the bottom line is, he threw an illegal knee. No knee no call. Yes, he sucked so bad he missed, but he still threw an illegal knee.

Whatever happened after that, he had only himself to blame.

Daley tried to throw an illegal knee, which would be illegal.
Koscheck "sold" the knee, which is/should also be illegal.

Because of - but not limited to - this, both of them disgraced themselves.

UpaLumpa
5/11/2010 9:50am,
Koscheck appeared to play up the knee but it isn't like it didn't touch him.

TheRuss
5/11/2010 10:06am,
Koscheck appeared to play up the knee but it isn't like it didn't touch him.

Watch it again. It is a lot like it didn't touch him.