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Student4Ever
4/20/2010 12:00pm,
I dont know to much about the organization. As far as I can tell they practice Chung Do Kwan, a traditional form of TaeKwonDo that is very similar to Shotokan Karate. I was just wondering if anyone knows anything about the organization and their schools?

Daniel Sullivan
4/20/2010 2:50pm,
From what I can gather from the about us section on the site, http://www.wmaa.com/Home_Page.php, it is Mike Dealy's organization. Aside from the claim that he went to Antarctica and performed his form in just his dobok on a glacier (hope he wore shoes), he is also ninth dan, though it does not say who promoted him.

So far as I know, CDK is part of the Kukkiwon. According to this site (looks like a WMAA school), http://www.oneworldtaekwondo.com/html/history.html, he trained under a GM Son. It never mentions who awarded him a gudan, but it does say that he founded the organization in the early nineties. Looks like a regional organization made up of Mr. Dealy and his schools that grew quite a bit, as it apparently has chapters in New York, California, Texas, Florida, New Jersey, Kentucky, Ohio, Indiana, and Pennsylvania.

No idea what the quality is like and I have no first hand familiarity with Michael Dealy.

Daniel

Student4Ever
4/20/2010 4:57pm,
Thanks for the info, it was a big help.
I was looking for more first hand information, that could tell me more about the style they practice and the format they practice in. I have watched a couple of Youtube videos that show Chung Do Kwan practitioners, and it is defiantly not anything like WTF or ITF. It looks closer to Karate. But this still doesn't tell me anything about the WMAA itself.

Daniel Sullivan
4/22/2010 9:53am,
When you say that it was not anything like WTF, do you mean Kukkiwon taekwondo or the sport that has olympic inclusion?

CDK is part of the Kukkiwon, though I do not know if Palgwe or Taegeuk forms (or both) are used in CDK schools.

I suppose that it is also possible for Dealy's GM to have continued to use his Kwan name but not sign on with the Kukkiwon, though there are likely people here who can better answer that.

Wish I had first hand info for you. Hopefully someone here has first hand familiarity.

Daniel

Student4Ever
4/22/2010 12:28pm,
I talked to someone that was more involved with the club. They said it was the Pyong form set, instead of the Palgwe or Taegeuk forms. They do not practice Olympic style sparing, looks more like a Karate style sparing. Its also light to no contact. The excuse is that they said it is a hard style of martial arts and if practiced with full contact could potentially injure someone.

From some further research I found that GM Son was appointed president of Chung do Kwan after GM Lee in the Late 50's. After disagreements GM Son moved to the U.S. and opened his own school based in NYC.

I was hoping someone else with first hand knowledge would know about his schools. The guy I talked to didn't know any other martial art. I was hoping for more of an unbiased opinion.

Daniel Sullivan
4/22/2010 12:58pm,
Pyung ahn forms? Those are used in Tangsudo and, I believe, some Okinawan karate, and they are the same as the Heian forms used in Shotokan.

Essentially, Son sounds like a CDK guy that didn't want to go Kukkiwon. The non-WTF sparring makes it more interesting.

Daniel

Miles
4/26/2010 7:03pm,
There may be a number of World Martial Arts Associations. Here is one which is headquartered in Detroit by the deceased former editor of TKD Times, GM Shim, Sang Kyu:

http://www.worldmartialartsassociation.org/Home_Page.html

This group used to advertise a lot during the 80s in TKD Times.

Student4Ever
5/17/2010 7:33am,
Well Daniel had the right one.
I found out that they have a youtube channel.
http://www.youtube.com/user/THEWMAAChannel
I want to know what real Chung Do Kwan practitioners think.

DerAuslander
5/17/2010 9:55am,
I have watched a couple of Youtube videos that show Chung Do Kwan practitioners, and it is defiantly not anything like WTF or ITF. It looks closer to Karate. But this still doesn't tell me anything about the WMAA itself.

The WTF is not a style of Taekwondo. It is a federation supporting thousands of dojang around the world, many with very different curriculum. The WTF is linked with Gukgi Taegwondo, the official style of Taegwondo of South Korea, and a result of the Gwan Unfication period.

The actual Cheongdogwan itself is a member of the Gukgiwon and teaches the Gukgi Taegwondo curriculum. The WMAA is a remnant from the original Cheongdogwan, and thus teaches the original Cheongdogwan Dangsudo/Taegwondo curriculum, which was derivied Shotokan Karatedo. Thus, students learn the Pyeongan forms, which are translations of the Heian kata of Shotokan.

The WMAA thus teaches Cheongdogwan-derived material, but they are not the actual Cheongdogwan.

Student4Ever
5/17/2010 11:12am,
Thanks for the information. Maybe I need to rephrase the question. Since they practice the Pyong Ahh forms, do they do them well? I am asking people who also still practice and use these traditional forms on a regular basis. I couldn't care less about organization affiliation, or if they practice "real chungdokwan" or not, it doesn't matter.

DerAuslander
5/17/2010 12:51pm,
Thanks for the information. Maybe I need to rephrase the question. Since they practice the Pyong Ahh forms, do they do them well? I am asking people who also still practice and use these traditional forms on a regular basis. I couldn't care less about organization affiliation, or if they practice "real chungdokwan" or not, it doesn't matter.

I'll take a look at the videos and get back to you.

***

EDIT:

I'm not impressed. At all.

For one, they don't even know the name of their forms, calling Pyeongan "Pyon", etc...

Laying aside discussions of the fundamental value of dancing forms representing a martial arts system...

Aesthetically, the forms I viewed were rushed, showed a lack of balance, a lack of center, and very little in the way of coordinated power generation.

Daniel Sullivan
5/18/2010 8:06am,
I just viewed their channel. In the one video that is displayed, it looked like each one was racing to get the form done before everyone else, which resulted in the shortcomings Der enumerated in his post above.

Perhaps its an odd drill or some kind of weird warm up???

I certainly won't pass judgment on the org based on it, but my observations were about the same as Der's.

Daniel

Student4Ever
5/18/2010 9:10am,
I thought the same thing. So I brought this up to one of the guys I know that practices. He said that they try to put as much speed and power into their forms as if it was an actual fight. But they seem to sacrifice their technique for the sake of speed.

DerAuslander
5/18/2010 11:38am,
I just viewed their channel. In the one video that is displayed, it looked like each one was racing to get the form done before everyone else, which resulted in the shortcomings Der enumerated in his post above.

Perhaps its an odd drill or some kind of weird warm up???

I certainly won't pass judgment on the org based on it, but my observations were about the same as Der's.

Daniel


I thought the same thing. So I brought this up to one of the guys I know that practices. He said that they try to put as much speed and power into their forms as if it was an actual fight. But they seem to sacrifice their technique for the sake of speed.

I remember discussing this on Warrior-Scholar several years back.

They think that by dancing their forms in such a manner they are mimicing the way they would actually do the moves in a fight.

However, as we can see from the videos, it results in shitty, uncoordinated technique, with zero coordinated power, etc.

Not to mention the complete bullshitification of the actual point of form training and ignorance of the bunkai of the Okinawan forms.:new_2guns:thefinger

Student4Ever
5/19/2010 7:40am,
Well this is officially a McDojang. I can not believe he has 11 different schools in this organization. I got this email the other day, since I signed up for their mailing list.

Fees for Testing‏
From: World Martial Arts Association ([email protected])
Sent: Sat 5/01/10 6:26 PM
To:
Lower Belts

$60 White through Purple Belts (all ages)
$50 High Purple Belt

$80 Brown belts age 15 and younger (child)
$50 High Brown Belt
$100 Brown belts ages 16 and above (adult)


Black Belts

1st Degree Test
Ages 15 & under (child) $600
Ages 16 & above (adult) $800

2nd Degree Test
Ages 15 & under (child) $800
Ages 16 & above (adult) $950


Upper Degree Black Belts

The following prices apply if the candidate has attended the Headquarters practice on a regular basis, paid the yearly registration fee for matriculation, and their payment of class fees are up to date.

3rd Degree Test $1,100

4th Degree Test $1,300


www.wmaa.com

I am a bit of a novice, but should prices be this high? On top of this you have the monthly school fee as well as yearly dues.

DerAuslander
5/19/2010 9:17am,
Jesus Christ, the Gukgiwon doesn't charge that much for testing!