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Haruun
4/09/2010 11:10am,
It has been a while since I registered on this forum and one of the main things I saw when I was browsing in the Traditional Style Forums was this Bujinkan budo taijutsu (ninjutsu) faq - No BS MMA and Martial Arts (http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=85108)... As a Bujinkan practitioner returning after 3 years of retirement I first took certain offense, however I decided to do some investigating of my own and look over certain things I gained after some years of training.

When I began training back in 2000, the overall Bujinkan focus was on the "traditional" ninjutsu and now a days its basically focused on "intentions". That somehow just seems odd that you somehow started training in a system and end up training on "intentions"

So... I read the full FAQ linked above and I saw this "Gikan-ryu: Legitimate Line passed Akimoto Fumio then to Akimoto Koki. The Bujinkan doesn't teach it as Hatsumi never trained in the art." and I recalled asking my sensei a few years back way before taking a leave of abscence and he said "Well, that school has few techniques and you will train it once you reach BB"... A few years later after earning my BB I asked the same and then answer I got was "Ganbatte"... keep training.

While we didnīt spar training was tough and contact heavy, some of my classmates and I tried to spar most of them just ducked and got away... so wtf are you training for???

So... after reading this FAQ and other stuff around I started putting the pieces together and I am somehow disappointed with what the Bujinkan is and though I want to retake my MA traing, I don't feel like putting on the uniform and gong back to that bullcrap training of an "intention" and not sparring because we can hurt each other!

So... This post is not about moping about it, but rather ask what other MA would be worth looking into... I read somewhere about Daido Juku and Kyokushin, Muay Thai maybe??? What do you guys say?

pauli
4/09/2010 11:21am,
first, figure out what's in your area. then figure out what to look into.

start with judo.

kolsyrade
4/09/2010 1:23pm,
I don't feel like putting on the uniform and gong back to that bullcrap training of an "intention" and not sparring because we can hurt each other!

So... This post is not about moping about it, but rather ask what other MA would be worth looking into... I read somewhere about Daido Juku and Kyokushin, Muay Thai maybe??? What do you guys say?

If you want to spar, either of those 3 are good. They all focus on hard contact sparring as a foundation of their systems
.
Kyokushin has the most restrictive rules (there are exceptions, some schools have different rules to train for as a option) as they dont allow fists/elbows to the head to the head in competitions, but fight bareknuckle (a experience in itself). There are also big chunks of the style that are trained but not allowed under the kyokushin sport rules. Also it has that "budo" feel that you might want in a martial art as you come from another japanese martial art.

Muay thai has those awful heavy gloves and not much to look forward to in training that is outside of their very nice competition rules (unless you look at Old style Muay Boran -but that is very hard to find even in Thailand -especially authentic).

Daido juku offers the best compromise of standup and ground fighting (the other two have no ground fighting), and still has a lot of "budo" feel. Unfortunately it is also the hardest to find.

And I agree with Pauli. Asking for recomendations for styles that may not exist in your area is kind of pointless. check what options you HAVE, before even starting to think about what to chose.

Haruun
4/09/2010 3:25pm,
Thx Pauli you certainly did point out something I had not thought about.

I did a little research, and what is available around this part of the world is Judo, Kyokushin and other karate styles and Kung Fu. I also found a guy teaching Krav Maga, is that any good?

Now here the Kung Fu guys look kinda shady so I rule them out.

So I thought maybe start with judo or kyokushin and then on the off days train the other one...

Im sooo getting hyped...

Zapruder
4/09/2010 3:39pm,
Thx Pauli you certainly did point out something I had not thought about.

I did a little research, and what is available around this part of the world is Judo, Kyokushin and other karate styles and Kung Fu. I also found a guy teaching Krav Maga, is that any good?

Now here the Kung Fu guys look kinda shady so I rule them out.

So I thought maybe start with judo or kyokushin and then on the off days train the other one...

Im sooo getting hyped...

Sounds like you got it figured out, and WELCOME to Bullshido!

Vorpal
4/09/2010 3:58pm,
Most people here have wasted time in MAs that either do not have a live component or were taught by people with questionable skills/background/lineage. From your list I would try Judo first if I was you. Good luck, train safe.

Haruun
4/09/2010 10:27pm,
Thanks for your replies guys, I appreciate the feedback.

My I ask, why you guys recomend to sart with judo? I don't want to start a this is better than that arguement, just looking for a little wisdom and guidance.

kolsyrade
4/10/2010 9:51am,
The only thing you need to know when choosing between Judo and kyokushin is that Judo is a olympic sport that is all about throwing (and a little bit grappling on the ground).
Picking the opponent off his feet and throwing them onto the floor. Occasionally pin and/or strangle them.

Kyokushin is a stand-up fightsport that is all about kicking, kneeing, punching and (to some extent) elbowing the opponent full contact .

Which do you enjoy more?
MY choice is kyokushin, which is what I do. But I think that is something you have to decide yourself.

BaronVonDingDong
4/10/2010 10:01am,
Thanks for your replies guys, I appreciate the feedback.

My I ask, why you guys recomend to sart with judo? I don't want to start a this is better than that arguement, just looking for a little wisdom and guidance.

People recommend judo because of its full-contact alive training (you start sparring "randori" and grappling "ne waza" almost immediately); it encourages all its students to compete locally, nationally, and even internationally; its quality is overseen by large international organizations and not by self-appointed cliques; and its self-defence aspect is proven. Finally, as everyone will tell you, it's cheap and widely available.

I only started judo very recently and am enormously impressed with the quality of the training. It's hands-on full contact from the start, and features very little extraneous ritual aside from a bit of polite bowing. The atmosphere is more like a sports club than a temple where the master's word is sacrosanct, and if anyone came out with the "too deadly" business they'd be laughed off the mat.

I'm in a boxing club too, and it's the same deal there. Absolutely no nonsense, just effective training with nice people.

All the best with finding something.

Matt Phillips
4/10/2010 10:42am,
first, figure out what's in your area. then figure out what to look into.

start with judo.
Amazing. The guy expresses an interest in knockdown karate/MT and you refer him to Judo. Are you even reading posts, or are you some kind of bot.

OP: If you have access to Daido Juku you will have your bases covered on the ground. Shidōkan as well, if you can find it. If that's your goal and you can't find those styles, Kyokushinkai (or Seidokan) supplemented with Judo is a good approximation.

I'm guessing you're looking for something like this:
YouTube- hybrid fighting highlights walpole 0001 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5gT2T856EU)

@ Pauli Try harder

Haruun
4/13/2010 6:57pm,
Thx for the vid, War Wheel. That and this one YouTube- Daido juku MMA karate knockdown (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5AvCcLwaJQ&playnext_from=TL&videos=oSXAqLKDCFI) are what I am looking for... However Daido Juku/Kudo is non existent here and the best next thing similar to Hybrid Fighting system is some bullshit socialist governement aligned crap (I live in Venezuela) called Siscomada or in english Adapted combat sistem which is pure 100% pure bullshido.

Also I've used my powerfull google-do, and looked up for a bit of Judo history, Kyokushinkai history, JJ, BJJ, MTripp as well as other cool ppl and not so cool ppl and it all boils down to Judo and/or Kyokushinkai... Both a very good choice since I like throwing ppl around or punching and kicking.

I'm going to visit the dojos, ask a crapload of questions try a class or 2 and then choose, later on I'll crosstrain.

Thx for all the feedback guys :biggrin:

reindo
4/18/2010 2:58pm,
It would be awesome if you could train both, judo and kyokushin.

Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs
4/18/2010 4:28pm,
Daido Juku started out as Kyokushin and Judo mixed. Only recently Muay Thai, BJJ and SAMBO techniques were added to the Kyokushin and Judo base arts.

Even nowadays most Daido Juku fighters have their training in Kyokushin and Judo instead of Daido Juku (There aren't much Daido Juku Dojo(s) around).

So train Kyokushin AND Judo, fight Daido Juku.

Have fun, train safe.

Stu-Jitsu
4/19/2010 8:05pm,
Hi, glad to hear you don't buy the point/no sparring/too deadly bullshit that newcomers to this site often do. You're quite right to stay away from kung fu for those reasons.

Krav Maga is very much hit-and-miss: more often than not, the instruction will be of a poor caliber, and the instructor unqualified. Krav schools also tend to be on the expensive side.

Either Muay Thai or Kyokushin will give you solid striking, and its really down to personal preference: If both are available, I'd go for whichever is cheaper and more convenient. You may also wish to consider boxing, especially if you plan on doing MT, as it will (obviously) improve your hands, and you'll learn proper footwork, two things which often play second fiddle to kicks/knees and clinchwork in MT.

You really can't go wrong with Judo, either, and if you're looking to become a rounded martial artist, its a great source of cheap and effective grappling.

Good luck!

Stu xD

Lindz
4/19/2010 8:15pm,
Hi, glad to hear you don't buy the point/no sparring/too deadly bullshit that newcomers to this site often do. You're quite right to stay away from kung fu for those reasons.

most kung fu, not all. it's hit or miss (mostly miss). the good stuff looks like this
YouTube- Kung Fu Sanda Sanshou (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3l71pjVU4II)

or if they compete in lei tai, shuai jiao or push hands thats good too

Stu-Jitsu
4/19/2010 8:23pm,
most kung fu, not all. it's hit or miss (mostly miss). the good stuff looks like this
YouTube- Kung Fu Sanda Sanshou (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3l71pjVU4II)


Ah, I had the chun and "traditional" kung fu styles i.e: Superamazingdeadlynorthernblacktigerzord-style in mind.

You're quite right, San Da is awesome - great kicks, sweeps and takedowns.

If you can find this, go for it. San Da resembles other kung fu styles in no way which I can discern: they spar full contact, zero forms, compete regularly.

Stu xD