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kenikim
3/26/2010 8:21pm,
i am trying to see if anyone has a similar problem as i do.
i inherited th3 d34dly flexibility from my folks, and while i was younger, i thought it was cool, as it got me out of trouble often in judo, but now, this severe laxity is sort of wreaking havoc to my body.

pretty much most of my joints are looser than the norm. my major concerns are my knees and my elbows. i went to see a rheumatologist a few months ago, because my knee was hurting from a compression lock i received, and he was 'impressed' with the laxity of my knees and my elbows. when i went in, my biggest concerns were my elbows, actually, because i developed golfer's elbow AND tennis elbow, at the SAME time, on BOTH friggin' arms. the pain was unbearable. but, upon examination, it looked like he was more concerned about my knees. he recommendation that if i have to go for a walk for more than an hour, i must have knee braces on. and of course stop judo. permanently.

i haven't been training for nearly 3 months now, i am pretty upset with the new judo rules and sort of trying to heal up some stuff, but i'll everntually go back, if not judo, probably to wrestling. but, i am now majorly concerned with my joint health. i've been doing some curls and squats with no weights, but, i really don't know if they are helping. and my overall fitness is declining, as i've stopping training. and even with the rest, my elbows still don't feel so good.

what would loosy bullies recommend in terms of exercise and DIET? i'm concerned about diet as well, because i've been reading that some foods, such as soy, is bad for joint laxity, as it mimics estrogen.

Lily
3/26/2010 10:42pm,
kenikim - has your doctor given you a definitive diagnosis of your condition or referred you to a specialist or recommended some sort of rehab?

Healthcare professionals are your first reference point.

Sorry to hear you've had to give up some of the things you enjoy. Btw, are you male or female (in reference to your estrogen question)?

Conde Koma
3/27/2010 2:40am,
i'm pretty damn flexible, but i can't say it's ever been a problem. i've got some old injuries and such, but i never attributed it to flexibility. i figure it's the lack of strength on those joints, so just exercise them more.

syberia
3/27/2010 2:51am,
What sort of excersize and diet do you have right now?

I'm not even going to pretend i have any idea about you problem in particular but if you have joint trouble: Swimming.
Do it now. It will be much better on your joints than anything else. I reccomend you stay away from using flippers or paddles when doing laps, however, until you get used to it.
And not just swimming laps, i'd even find a physio and get them to recommend some excersizes to do in the water (Such as walking, movement etc) to slowly strengthen the muscles around your joints.

But, like i said. What kind of habits do you have now?

kenikim
3/27/2010 8:48am,
i'm a dude.
really really flexible dude. i'm worried about my daughter a bit. it looks like she's got my flexi-genes. i haven't been diagnosed with any particular condition. i was hoping that rheumatologist would go into more detail but he was more interested getting to the rest of the lineup. i hate doctors. my experience with them have been very negative over the years.

as to my current exercise and diet regiment, not much of an exercise right now, since i paused my training. just simple wrist curls with a stick while sitting at the office, (and some foosball), and some ATG squats. i'm only doing them, because i have to. i really really HATE working out... i used to lift weights and do laps and all that when i was younger and competing, but i only did that for judo. i still hated doing them. now that i don't compete, 'exercising' is the last thing my lazy ass wants to do. i just don't get enough stimulus from them to keep up for a long time.

swimming is something i wanted to do for a long time, but i don't have access to one near me. and i am a horrible swimmer...

and my diet is pretty balanced. specially with a 6 year old in the household, i always try to make sure that what we eat is balanced. but being a korean household, we eat a lot of soy products. it is something i have begun to avoid, but i am not sure if the studies are definately conclusive on the effects of soy on men.

Diesel_tke
3/27/2010 9:23am,
Well, usually in physical therapy, they will have you doing lots of joint strengthening. It is really a good thing especially when you start to get older. Once your body stops producing enough testosterone to produce muscle mass, you will want to work on keeping what you have and maintaining joint health. Seems like this is what you should do any way.

So regardless of how much you like working out, you should make it a priority if you are wanting to keep your joints in good shape. It would also be good for your child to see you doing this because it is a great habit to pass on. You should look into body weight exercises because they shouldn't put undue stress on your joints.

Then just get into a good routine. Something you can do at the house. Start out small. For example: do 20 pushups, then 20 squats, then 10 pullups, then 20 lunges. Then do about 4 or 5 sets. It would be a pretty quick work out, about 20 minutes if you rest a little in between. These exercises will allow you to strengthen your joints as well as the muscle surrounding them. Which makes for more secure joints.

I do similar workouts, but throw in dips, rows, and leg lifts. My kids follow me around and mimic the exercises. When my 5 year old started wrestling, the coach was shocked that he could do 30 pushups!

TheRuss
3/27/2010 3:46pm,
I don't like the title of this thread.

I'm no physiotherapist, but it sounds like you've got an issue with excessive


laxity

not flexibility per se. Do either of your parents have the same problem?

spamurai13
3/27/2010 4:23pm,
Have you considered getting genetic testing? There are a few conditions (Ehler's Danlos, Marfan's, Benign joint hypermobility syndrome) which cause joint laxity and are inheritable.

The clinical progression of these disorders are variable and in fact some of them are noticeable right from birth.

In terms of diet and exercise, unfortunately I'm not qualified to comment on that, but if you were to get genetic testing (or at least another opinion from say orthopaedics) and were to get a diagnosis, then your training regimen could be tuned more to your needs.

the short: I am sorry you've had negative experiences with doctors. Doctors are humans and with the good come the bad. I echo Lily's recommendation. Keep seeing doctors until you find one that understands you and that you trust.

Good Luck

Bullwhip
3/28/2010 6:09pm,
This girl in my school had hyper flexibility. Coach told her that she maybe arthritis later in life. He mention Ostio Arthritis, not reumatoid arthritis.
Will strength training without stretching make you loose too much flexibility?

hungryjoe
3/28/2010 8:05pm,
Have you considered getting genetic testing? There are a few conditions (Ehler's Danlos, Marfan's, Benign joint hypermobility syndrome) which cause joint laxity and are inheritable.

The clinical progression of these disorders are variable and in fact some of them are noticeable right from birth.

In terms of diet and exercise, unfortunately I'm not qualified to comment on that, but if you were to get genetic testing (or at least another opinion from say orthopaedics) and were to get a diagnosis, then your training regimen could be tuned more to your needs.

the short: I am sorry you've had negative experiences with doctors. Doctors are humans and with the good come the bad. I echo Lily's recommendation. Keep seeing doctors until you find one that understands you and that you trust.

Good Luck

Interesting thread.

While I've always been very flexible, my daughter is a mutant.

We've had her to an orthopedic surgeon who specializes in pediatrics three times. She has pain issues with her knees and ankles. Xrays have been taken, but never an MRI. He says she has slower than normal skeletal development and that she'll grow into her bones.

Cross country, track and judo are the sports she loves. I'm afraid she may be breaking herself down at an early age.

No intent to derail the thread.

spamurai13,

You sound like you know a fair bit about this. Any thoughts on how best to pursue this myself? At this point I'm leaning towards a second opinion.

kenikim
3/28/2010 9:58pm,
I don't like the title of this thread.
I'm no physiotherapist, but it sounds like you've got an issue with excessive
not flexibility per se. Do either of your parents have the same problem?

it's pretty easy to confuse the difference between the two. for the longest time, i thought i was just flexible, but didn't know that joint laxity contributed to my seeming flexibility. and yes, my folks, especially the mum, are quite flexible, uh,, lax??? 'are you too lax?' just sounds weird.


Have you considered getting genetic testing? There are a few conditions (Ehler's Danlos, Marfan's, Benign joint hypermobility syndrome) which cause joint laxity and are inheritable.

The clinical progression of these disorders are variable and in fact some of them are noticeable right from birth.

In terms of diet and exercise, unfortunately I'm not qualified to comment on that, but if you were to get genetic testing (or at least another opinion from say orthopaedics) and were to get a diagnosis, then your training regimen could be tuned more to your needs.

the short: I am sorry you've had negative experiences with doctors. Doctors are humans and with the good come the bad. I echo Lily's recommendation. Keep seeing doctors until you find one that understands you and that you trust.

Good Luck

you sound like someone in the medical profession. i've read about those conditions you mentioned in the past few months. and i am quite certain i got something. something about getting an official medical label as a genetic freak of an unimpressive kind holds me back to get tested... but, i think i will look into that soon. i need to know what i have so i am prepared for my daughter. my joint pains are some time unbearable and i'd really hate for my daughter to have to suffer through the same.


Interesting thread.

While I've always been very flexible, my daughter is a mutant.

We've had her to an orthopedic surgeon who specializes in pediatrics three times. She has pain issues with her knees and ankles. Xrays have been taken, but never an MRI. He says she has slower than normal skeletal development and that she'll grow into her bones.

Cross country, track and judo are the sports she loves. I'm afraid she may be breaking herself down at an early age.

No intent to derail the thread.

spamurai13,

You sound like you know a fair bit about this. Any thoughts on how best to pursue this myself? At this point I'm leaning towards a second opinion.

i share your concern.
i'm happy for you that your daughter enjoys judo though.
i've tried to take mine out for judo, but alas, didn't work out... i was quite sad...

TheRuss
3/28/2010 10:15pm,
it's pretty easy to confuse the difference between the two. for the longest time, i thought i was just flexible, but didn't know that joint laxity contributed to my seeming flexibility. and yes, my folks, especially the mum, are quite flexible, uh,, lax??? 'are you too lax?' just sounds weird.

Yeah... I'm not meaning to nitpick, it's just an important distinction to make. I was going to give you advice based on the premise that your muscles and tendons are extra-stretchy: "Be disciplined about your range of motion - decide how far you go, don't let your joints make that decision for you"...

... but that may not apply to joints with excessive ligament laxity, because the problem isn't just hyperextension - there's also the possibility of joints displacing in inappropriate directions, which is significantly more difficult to deal with.

kenikim
3/28/2010 10:36pm,
Yeah... I'm not meaning to nitpick, it's just an important distinction to make. I was going to give you advice based on the premise that your muscles and tendons are extra-stretchy: "Be disciplined about your range of motion - decide how far you go, don't let your joints make that decision for you"...

... but that may not apply to joints with excessive ligament laxity, because the problem isn't just hyperextension - there's also the possibility of joints displacing in inappropriate directions, which is significantly more difficult to deal with.

i fully understand where you are coming from.
when i was 20, and if i saw a posting somewhere about joint laxity, i'll be like, 'huh?'. but seeing the word, 'flexible' would probably catch my attention. i don't think my muscles and tendons are stretchy. i actually think the opposite. especially my hamstrings... it really contributes to my back problem. they are really really tight. but i can still put both my feet behind my head, without really having to warm up.

i've been trying to look into braces, but i'm reading conflicting opinions about them.

JohnnyCache
3/28/2010 11:59pm,
what is with everybody doing AtG squats? Just do box/paralell squats.

money
3/29/2010 3:13pm,
This is a problem I have been struggling with for a while now. I get tennis elbow & tendinitis very easily and I've recently been struggling with ankle/shin issues from running that could be related to flexibility issues with my feet/ankles.

I actually have a lot of the symptoms of Marfan syndrome (very thin, hyper-flexibility, skeletal issues, heart issues) but it's easy to self-diagnose all sorts of **** when you've got the internet. That being said, I'm considering bringing it up with my doctor if just to be able to rule it out.

As for what to do, I can't really make recommendations besides ease into things and tap early/tap often.

kenikim
3/30/2010 12:32pm,
i'm reading this thread with interest as well.
Grip development for combat sports (http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=94993)

for my elbow tendinitis, i was told to target them with wrist curl machines. i had cortisone shots on my right elbow about 6 months ago, but i don't think they helped. i purposely got them only on my right and not both arms, and i notice no difference between the arms.

to make matters worse, i broke my scaphoid, a small bone in the wrist with a single blood supply, a long time ago, and my right hand tires very easily. it was a 'non-union', meaning they separated so much that they weren't going to heal back on its own. i had to get bone grafting done from my pelvis and a screw is holding them together. it's quite amusing to see the look on the serving staff's face, when i ask for a fork at asian restaurants, because i'm korean. i can't really use chopsticks for longer than 5-10 minutes. i should start carrying my own sfork...