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DdlR
2/13/2010 4:35pm,
YouTube- Renaissance Combat From The 1595 Club (aka. Historical Fencing or European Martial Arts) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSYSqdz9WKc)

Another really nice YouTube clip showing various forms of fencing and unarmed combat inspired by Vincentio Saviolo's treatise. Apart from the use of "300"-style slow motion video editing, it's interesting to see Saviolo's fighting principles applied to unarmed combat and more modern weapons like walking sticks.

Obviously, most of these clips are choreographed training drills building towards free-fighting.

SBG-ape
2/19/2010 1:57pm,
The cynic in me always wonders upon seeing a good presentation, if the presentation is good because the group spend their energy on that rather than sparring & live drills.

I have to say though, that was an impressive presentation & I liked the music.

DdlR
2/19/2010 2:14pm,
Hard to tell. The very last sequence in the video could be a moment from a free bout, and according to their website the chief instructor has a classical fencing, sports fencing and boxing background.

I like this statement from the 1595.com site:


It is impossible to recreate completely the arts of the old Masters, their disciplines and skills have long since disappeared or, at very best, been so diluted that they are beyond recognition. What is possible is to try to answer the questions that they posed using the clues that they have left. Furthermore the Art, if it is to exist and flourish, cannot simply be an historical curiosity; its philosophy, practise & customs must be of relevance & benefit to society & in so doing become, once more, a living tradition. The aim of the 1595 is a practical & innovative exploration of Saviolo’s work - his principles, techniques & philosophy; not only of his chosen forms but also the application of these criterion to other weapons, weapon combinations & as the basis for a system of unarmed self-defence & combat.

Permalost
2/20/2010 7:12pm,
Are those type of forearm guards commonly available? They look like pretty good tools for weapon work.

DdlR
2/20/2010 11:49pm,
I've never seen their like before; chances are they're made for/by the 1595 Club.

Truculent Sheep
6/18/2011 12:44pm,
Well, I'm a member of the 1595 right now. So here's some bullet points to clarify things:

* Chris (the teacher) is very nice.
* The teaching is based on drills, working up to 'free play' which stops short of being full-on sparring.
* The same methodology applies to weapons and unarmed, much like the system used by The Exiles (who are given serious props).
* We've started with unarmed, and improvisation is encouraged (as long as we remember it's a drill).
* Weapons covered include single sword, dagger, polearms, unarmed, sword and shield.
* A strong emphasis on footwork, as per Saviolo.
* Forearm guards are care of fencing gear manufacturers Leon Paul.
* The 1595 is trying to set up a London 'salle', but is based primarily in Brighton.

And that's it.

judoka_uk
6/18/2011 1:06pm,
I noticed that during the bowing sequence the pair didn't break eye contact? Is that something specifically mentioned in the original 16th century text?

I ask because recently there's been some debate on Judoforum that the popular mythos of JMA schools preaching to bow whilst maintaining eye contact may well have filtered into Japanese swordsmen ship and thus JMA in general, from Prussian sword manuals during the final decades of the long 19th century.

Dak
6/18/2011 5:14pm,
Are those type of forearm guards commonly available? They look like pretty good tools for weapon work.

i only glimpsed at them, but they look like your standard arm protector commonly used in coaching epee fencers. Much in the same category as these sorts:
http://stores.thefencingpost.com/-strse-Coaching-Gear-cln-Arm-%26-Leg-Protection/Categories.bok

DdlR
6/18/2011 5:36pm,
i only glimpsed at them, but they look like your standard arm protector commonly used in coaching epee fencers. Much in the same category as these sorts:
http://stores.thefencingpost.com/-strse-Coaching-Gear-cln-Arm-%26-Leg-Protection/Categories.bok

Similar intention and basic design, but the arm guards in the video clip look much thicker and they're covered with a quilted material. Maybe standard epee arm protectors customized for training with heavier weapons?

judoka_uk
6/18/2011 5:39pm,
They look like things I've seen on re-enactmenters at various English heritage events etc... Maybe contact a local re-enactment group to see who their prefered supplier is.

Truculent Sheep
6/18/2011 8:15pm,
Firstly, the arm guards are made by Leon Paul.

@ Judoka_Uk

I'd say eye contact is pretty universal in any working martial arts system. Also, Saviolo's approach requires keeping a constant eye on the other man's hand and foot movements, so letting your guard down is, by definition, frowned upon.

DdlR
6/18/2011 8:34pm,
Firstly, the arm guards are made by Leon Paul.

http://www.leonpaul.com/acatalog/Quilted_Canvans_Coaches_Sleeve.html

Are they off-white versions of these?

Dak
6/18/2011 8:51pm,
Similar intention and basic design, but the arm guards in the video clip look much thicker and they're covered with a quilted material. Maybe standard epee arm protectors customized for training with heavier weapons?
I suppose. I'm sure the quilted variety is equally as attainable. My coach has a thick black quilted one he uses for drills.

edit: found the quilted sleeve on fencing.net
http://shop.fencing.net/product_p/afg-71024.htm

doubledit: the leon paul one looks much nicer.

Truculent Sheep
6/19/2011 4:40am,
Are they off-white versions of these?

Yes, they are. Sadly, they also cost a veritable bomb - and a lot of WMA outfits insist on Leon Paul.

Mordschlag
6/19/2011 12:33pm,
Got two questions for you Truculent Sheep.

I. What led to the development of this unarmed method? Did you see a present need to develop an apparently idiosyncratic unarmed system? Understand that I'm not saying this in any negative way, rather just out of curiosity. I say this because it seems like you've made a sort of fencing-with-the-hands, rather than any kind of historical wrestling usually used for unarmed fighting.

II. Why bother at all with those arm guards? They seem unnecessary, bulky, and expensive. So what made you want to go with them?

Props for the walking stick stuff. I love seeing people apply fencing methods to sticks.

Truculent Sheep
6/19/2011 2:39pm,
Got two questions for you Truculent Sheep.

I. What led to the development of this unarmed method? Did you see a present need to develop an apparently idiosyncratic unarmed system? Understand that I'm not saying this in any negative way, rather just out of curiosity. I say this because it seems like you've made a sort of fencing-with-the-hands, rather than any kind of historical wrestling usually used for unarmed fighting.

I think there's a recurring theme in renaissance/early modern Italian fighting techniques of the same basic principles applying to all kinds of melee combat, from unarmed to polearms. Fiore dei Liberi's works are another example of this.

Also, it makes sense to start with unarmed and then gradually work your way up through the arsenal once you've learned how to drill or semi-spar in the least damaging way possible. That might be a more modern approach, though I'd speculate that the original masters may have done it that way too (or with a similar gradual incrementation of intensity in any case).


II. Why bother at all with those arm guards? They seem unnecessary, bulky, and expensive. So what made you want to go with them?

If you notice in the video, they're sparring with blunted metal weapons that do hurt a fair bit if you're hit by one. They're also wearing heavy fencing coach vests for that reason. The more full-on 'plays' also require fencing masks.

As an aside, I will need at least a year's training before I can even get to that point, should I wish to continue.


Props for the walking stick stuff. I love seeing people apply fencing methods to sticks.

Yes, that's quite a practical application - if only carrying a stick or cane hadn't gone out of fashion. The chav-battering applications would be many and varied!