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KC Elbows
11/07/2002 4:41pm,
Posted on KFO by a member there. For those who think all traditionalists fit into one group, here is something that might open up your minds a little to the concept that some actually spend their time training to fight as well. Also covers cross training, form, everything.

"Our truth of fighting
Dearfellows, my si-fu Marcello Teixeira asked me to post this topic here. Weare opened to talk about this in our site:

" Although I can read and speak in English, I have much difficulty to write due to the grammatical errors. For this reason I asked for to my student Bruno Lima Rocha to post this text in my name.I receive many e_mails diverselly asking about methods from trainings, besides following forums constantly where I notice the great conflict among practitioners of ďinternalĒ styles in relation to this subject.

I will express here for the practitioners of Xing Yi my truth, based on the more common questions that I receive.

1) External and internal: They are two parts of one same currency. Only internal it is a kind of therapy and only external it is not Xing Yi. The two have that to be in harmony. Let the theory for the theoreticians leaves and letžs train and practice hard. Xing Yi is a tremendous style of combat, and as everything in the life its development is based on the PRACTICE.

2) Fighter: A fighter without fighting doesnít exist, if you want to learn to swim you must swim, if you want to learn to dance you must dance, if you want to learn to fight you must have to fight. The whole thing is simple, so donít complicate.

3) Conditioning: It is basic for those who wants to fight. Catch something that is hard as a football-helmet, punch it for some times with all force and you will see that your hands hurt a lot. Imagine yourself in a middle of a fight, where you do not have time to prepare and to condition and take account that the target is in movement, the possibilities to hurt the hands, beating somebody with much force are enormous. This is valuable for any natural weapon that you wants to use. Ask for some friend who trains Thai or Kyokushin to give some shin-kicks to you and try to defend them. If your arms are not prepared they will not support the repeated impact. There is a detail, donít come with theories to leave it and step-aside and to deviate because not always it is possible. Many times the thing happens so fast, that at the right moment the only skill is to block and if you are really good, then you will counter-attack simultaneously. Condiotionate all of your natural weapons in a way that they donít leave you alone and without resourcesto in the time when iís necessary.

4) Timing and reflex: To fight is to have reflex, you canít think a lot in a middle of a combat. Or you are really prepared or youíre not.. Theories, movements, conditioning, forms, methods of Chikun or any other method serves for nothing without reflex and mental condition to enter in combat. Reflex is acquired with training for Toming and Reflex and/or sparring with your train-mates. When you feel prepared look for friendly people friends of other styles and spare with them.

5) Techniques: The best technique is the one that you have conditions to apply now, the remaining portion is remaining portion. If you have an old car and your neighbor has a Ferrari, for you its is better because you enter and drive whenever you want to. You must work to also have a Ferrari, but at this moment you can count on your old car. The only way to use one technique in combat is training exhaustingly its basic mechanism and its forms of application. A great difference between knowing and dominating a technique. To know the techniques is for curious, to dominate techniques is for serious practitioners.

6) Mix styles: I canít understand this crazyness of the practitioners of Chinese Martial Art to learn and to practice at the same time, styles that has the same objective. If you train a style of fight in stan-up position (as a striker) like Xing Yi, what is the advantage will be practising at to practice at the same time another style of total different biomechanics and that also fight in stan-up (striking)? I will choose one and I dominate it. In case that you it wants to mix two styles, then I will choose one that belongs to a different universe, as, for example, a style of grappling (ground-fight and throws).

7) Ability: When somebody enters in some forum doubting about the functionality of a style, this serves to alert the practitioners that something is going wrong. On the reality the opinion of this person was based in what she/he has seen. If the Xing Yi this not being respected as a combat style, something is going very wrong. Or this pal has never really seen the Xing Yi martial art or the source that he saw is weak and imcompetent. If you practice a style for more than an yearand still ainít have the conditions to defend yourself, you must change your school and goes to a serious one.

Best regards, from Rio de Janeiro, Brasil
Marcello Teixeira"

11/07/2002 5:12pm,
Umm.... Yes.
Nothing here to argue with.

"Not in the face!"

11/07/2002 6:04pm,
Actually I disagree with part of #6.

Striking fighting is multi ranged and has many permutations. I think its a good thing to be able to "roll with the changes" and not get stuck to the "rules" of one striking style that might be to your detriment.

Peedee and kungfools are bend over buddies.

11/07/2002 6:35pm,
I don't know much about Hsing I (or any of the other Chinese->English translations of the term), outside of an article that was in a Kung Fu magazine last April/May with a really ridiculous "anti-takedown" technique that involved hitting the guy on the neck as he came in for the shot.

I've heard good things about the art, but I'm skeptical until I see it used in a real situation effectively.

Other than that, the guy's right about a lot of it, especially crosstraining.

No art, is the only complete art. (Blatant Bruceism there.)

11/07/2002 6:41pm,
I've seen a grappler floored by a hsing-i guy, but that was by a punch to the body as he tried to close. One example isn't really enough for a statistical analysis though.

"Not in the face!"

11/07/2002 7:26pm,
Where did you see this Sam? What was the guys name? Do you have proof? If you want proof of a BJJ guy beating up a Kung Fu guy just look on this site and you'll see one getting his arm broken. How come none of the Kung Fu guys ever have any proof? That really should be a question in everyones mind.

Im going to start reviewing Kung Fu instructionals by guys that are considered masters. I've seen alot of them and they are all terrible. A school near me rents instrucionals. When I see something good I'll be honest but if its crap I'm going to be honest about that too.

The next thing people are going to say is "Thats not REAL Kung Fu.". Heres an idea.....If you look at motorcycles and say that the bikes of today are not REAL bikes because they don't match the description of bikes 40 years ago your still wrong. They ARE 'real" bikes. Thats what bikes look like today. Kung Fu and Karate are practiced a certain way by 99% of schools out there and that way is trash. If you get a Kung Fu guy that trains the same way as Vanderlei Silva hes NOT A KUNG FU GUY! If you add BJJ to Kung Fu you are making it something ELSE.

Martial arts are in a pretty sad state of affairs and have been for a while. The "tomato cans" you see are the RULE rather than the exception.

KC Elbows
11/07/2002 7:29pm,
Like anything, there's a lot of different hsing yi's. The best I've seen used a very small number of techniques(5 really, plus footwork) to great effectiveness.

However, it's my understanding that there's crap out there too.

11/07/2002 8:02pm,
I don't understand how one style can "own" a paticular type of fighting. My Kung Fu school has grappling, does that mean I don't do Kung Fu? Why aren't styles allowed to evolve? Is there a rule somewhere that says these are the moves of this style, no other moves may be used or added? Grappling is supposed to be an ancient art, right? I would assume that all styles would want to use it. Ignoring it would be ignorance.

Mr. Donkeypenis
11/07/2002 8:37pm,
Quote: "I've seen a grappler floored by a hsing-i guy..."

I don't doubt that, but how did you know he is a grappler? What kind of grappling? "Self-trained?" Was a student of this "master" doing a demonstration?


KC Elbows
11/07/2002 8:59pm,
People, quit hijacking a good thread to continue this argument that's going on elsewhere on this forum, anyway.

This is not a thread about TMA vs. MMA. It's a thread to demonstrate that some kung fu schools believe much the same way as the MMA do. It only looks like something else because you all, on both sides, have personal agendas.

Karate Fighter
11/07/2002 9:30pm,
Fighting is fighting. In the end, you can do karate, kung fu, bjj whatever....the style doesn't matter. The base style of fighting is fighting itself. If you can't understand that, then you'll always be stuck doing your tkd kicks or karate chops or whatever illusions you have grown attached to.

11/07/2002 9:51pm,
" One example isn't really enough for a statistical analysis though."

This is truth.

Peedee and kungfools are bend over buddies.

11/07/2002 9:57pm,
" If you get a Kung Fu guy that trains the same way as Vanderlei Silva hes NOT A KUNG FU GUY!"

This makes no sense as it stands.
How is he not a kung fu guy? Are you talking about intensity? Are you talking about strategy? You do realize that when you say "kung fu" you are uttering a word that represents 400 different style(of which most don't get along)?
Is his striking going to be THAT diffent that it become yet another animal? (pardon the pun). Is BJJ a striking style?

Peedee and kungfools are bend over buddies.

11/07/2002 10:09pm,
I thought Silva's striking was muay thai...

<Me> John, what do you know about Zen Buddhism? <John> *smacks me*
<John> I'd have to smack you sometime...

11/07/2002 10:23pm,
Yes and it is STILL mauy Thai striking, Not BJJ striking. That part has not changed. thats the point.

Peedee and kungfools are bend over buddies.

11/07/2002 10:54pm,
How come none of the Kung Fu guys ever have any proof?

Listen, chuckles, I'm going to tell you something I think you should know: You're a fuckin idiot (and I mean that with the best of intentions). Not the point though. I hear you say this every time and I can only suggest you try looking OFF THE NET. In fact, why don't you go to these schools and just challenge the guy running them? You might just crash a few McDojos (no problems with that here)! Don't worry though, if you're as arrogant off the net as on it, you'll eventually find someone authentic. In fact, when you do, and get your ass handed to you, you'll probably be all "thanks oce, you're the man!" This is because you will realize I've given you a little push off the top of a 10th story window called "close-minded idiocy" into the burning asphalt of truth. Now go do something constructive.