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G0LG013
12/31/2009 1:04am,
Hello Bullshido Community,

Been reading the boards and I like the mindset here. Makes me feel all warm inside seeing people as realistic as I am. Anyway on to why I'm here...

I want to start learning a martial art for self defense. I haven't trained since I was a kid in some McDojo's Dung Fu class and quit shortly after joining. I've been reading about Ninjutsu, Krav Maga, BJJ and Muay Thai on here for the last little while and I know that the first two are looked down upon and with some very compelling reasons why. It seems that KM and NJ work if the teacher isn't a douchebag, but I'm not completely sure.

I'm not studying any styles right now but what I want is something for defense. I don't mean Jet Li kicking a pool ball into a forehead type defense or Steven Seagull neck crunching defense either. What I'm talking about is even if I use verbal de-escalation tactics and some meat/crackhead continues his attack I can do something instead of standing there like a human target taking hits.

I know that a mix of styles (MT + BJJ) is seen as a good thing but apparently the teacher is very important. KM seems like it works but there many people saying it doesn't. Ninjutsu (from the ninja website below video) looks like it actually works, though marketing can be a very powerful thing indeed.


So please help me out ,fellow members of Bullshido! Does anyone here know/have experience with the following places/teachers?:

BJJ: http://www.torontobjj.com

Krav Maga: http://www.kravmagatoronto.com/

Muay Thai: http://www.tkmt.ca/ ; http://www.renegademtk.com

Ninjutsu: http://www.ninpotoronto.com/main.html

If anyone has any knowledge about the above dojos or tips/information for me, please bestow your wisdom upon me. I've come here hoping you guys can help me make a good choice. Because learning l33t sekrat ninjr skilz or teh krucifix in a dojo is one thing, but being able to defend yourself is a completely different ballgame. Or so I'm told.


Thanks again for reading this preposterously long post and Happy Holidays.


By the way, cool smileys.. :cussing: :qright2:

Tzadqiel
12/31/2009 1:37am,
Not sure how others will respond to this. Don't be suprised if you get inane, insulting comments. The best thing you could probably do is go to these places you have listed and sit in on a few classes if they'll allow that. That should help you a) see if they train with liveness and b) see if it looks like the thing for you. That aside always good to get the instructors name and credentials and then fact check them yourself. Which by the way Bullshido is a good place to do that. Good luck and welcome to the happiest place on the web.

ZenOfAnger
12/31/2009 1:54am,
Welcome to bullshido!


I always recommend this thread I made so people can understand what aliveness is :Matt Thornton: Words of Wisdom. A.K.A How to Train Martial Arts - No BS MMA and Martial Arts (http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=80596)


As stated before, take time to visit each school to see what their training is truly like, as websites can sometimes over-emphasize the flashy aspects of it, but I would recommend first to watch the videos above before doing so.

Some schools will say, "Yeah, we train with aliveness, but not until after a few years.", or, "Our stuff is too deadly to train that way." Those places you should avoid.

The best rule of thumb is that within a 3-6 month time frame, you should be sparring in whatever art you are training, and with some hard contact. It doesn't have to be balls-to-the-wall knock out your opponent sparring, but at a level that pushes you and makes you feel under pressure (not tappy point-sparring that reprimands you for hard contact).

Anyways, good luck, and I hope someone will come and help you out more who might have experiences with those schools you linked to.


Sincerely,

ZoA.

Whathappened
12/31/2009 3:47am,
I'm not studying any styles right now but what I want is something for defense. I don't mean Jet Li kicking a pool ball into a forehead type defense or Steven Seagull neck crunching defense either. What I'm talking about is even if I use verbal de-escalation tactics and some meat/crackhead continues his attack I can do something instead of standing there like a human target taking hits.

Learn the basics. Fancy tricks later.
No sense talking about high speed drifting if you haven't even driven down a straight road and come to a full stop before.

Like driving, no sense paying for the advanced "defensive driving course" conducted by NASCAR racer if you don't even know where the accelerator pedal is. lol.

Repost from another thread. (http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showpost.php?p=2280549&postcount=24)

I use this test, the style(s) should be able to help you survive at each of these ranges:
1. 0" range aka grappling, e.g., wrestling, bjj, judo, etc
2. 2" range aka clinch, knee or sabaki range, e.g., muay thai, wing chun (lolwut), Ashihara/Enshin, judo, bjj, wrestling
3. 4" range aka striking or medium range, e.g. MT, Ashihara/Enshin, Boxing, etc
4. 8" range aka kicking, weapon or long range, e.g. TKD, Karate, Kendo, etc
5. 16" range aka Get a Gun, Stupid.

BJJ for 0" range and Muay Thai for 2~8" range.
That is the typical range a low life will engage in h2h combat and/or escalate.:5bullwhip

MGM
12/31/2009 5:13am,
Welcome to Bullshido. Looking forward to hearing how your search for a school and style plays out.

Tex
12/31/2009 5:28am,
Hello Bullshido Community,

Been reading the boards and I like the mindset here. Makes me feel all warm inside seeing people as realistic as I am. Anyway on to why I'm here...

I want to start learning a martial art for self defense. I haven't trained since I was a kid in some McDojo's Dung Fu class and quit shortly after joining. I've been reading about Ninjutsu, Krav Maga, BJJ and Muay Thai on here for the last little while and I know that the first two are looked down upon and with some very compelling reasons why. It seems that KM and NJ work if the teacher isn't a douchebag, but I'm not completely sure.

I'm not studying any styles right now but what I want is something for defense. I don't mean Jet Li kicking a pool ball into a forehead type defense or Steven Seagull neck crunching defense either. What I'm talking about is even if I use verbal de-escalation tactics and some meat/crackhead continues his attack I can do something instead of standing there like a human target taking hits.

I know that a mix of styles (MT + BJJ) is seen as a good thing but apparently the teacher is very important. KM seems like it works but there many people saying it doesn't. Ninjutsu (from the ninja website below video) looks like it actually works, though marketing can be a very powerful thing indeed.


So please help me out ,fellow members of Bullshido! Does anyone here know/have experience with the following places/teachers?:

BJJ: http://www.torontobjj.com

Krav Maga: http://www.kravmagatoronto.com/

Muay Thai: http://www.tkmt.ca/ ; http://www.renegademtk.com

Ninjutsu: http://www.ninpotoronto.com/main.html

If anyone has any knowledge about the above dojos or tips/information for me, please bestow your wisdom upon me. I've come here hoping you guys can help me make a good choice. Because learning l33t sekrat ninjr skilz or teh krucifix in a dojo is one thing, but being able to defend yourself is a completely different ballgame. Or so I'm told.


Thanks again for reading this preposterously long post and Happy Holidays.


By the way, cool smileys.. :cussing: :qright2:

Cool Smileys dude.. yeah. :gwbdance:

G0LG013
12/31/2009 10:13am,
Hey all, thanks for the responses, especially the ones about alive sparring and range of attacks to useful styles. I'm actually going to drop into all of the places except for TKMT because of the $10 charge. I don't know about it to even drop that kind of coin. The other places are free.

I appreciate your responses and I hope I get more. I especially hope some replies go along the lines of "THAT school?! The only thing you learn to do there is look like an epileptic in a street fight!"

I know that one can get a "feel" for a MA school during a free trial. They can ask questions from the instructors, students and so on. I know what I'm looking for in a way (Self-Defense) but I'm not sure these people are teaching techniques that work.

Anyway, thanks again for your kind responses and minimal bashing. It's appreciated.

Goju - Joe
12/31/2009 10:57am,
Where are you located TorontoBJJ has great instruction the owner however is a bit nuts with the Brazilian worship

jnp
12/31/2009 11:16am,
Welcome to Bullshido.

I suggest giving Judo some consideration. It's inexpensive and widely available. Slamming someone into the ground makes for pretty good self-defense, and there is less legal liability involved as opposed to hitting them in the face.

G0LG013
12/31/2009 11:59am,
I'm located near High Park in the west end of Toronto.

Judo seems like my cup of tea and TorontoBJJ teaches it. My one issue with Judo is this video which probably is a little biased(edit: What happens in Judo when you get to the ground? That's my issue. Or it is until someone can tell me? )
edit2: Just saw some Judo armbars. deadly ****. I still don't understand the whole BJJ vs Judo thing. Are they really that different?

YouTube- Royce Gracie v.s. Judo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkwCwFEPpQM&feature=related)

Kintanon
12/31/2009 2:47pm,
The Judo syllabus contains a lot of the same ground techniques that BJJ uses, however the classroom and competition emphasis is usually less about submissions and more about throws/pins. Most of your time will be spent practicing to throw people from standing. The good thing is that most people put up very little resistance to whatever it is you decide to do AFTER you hit them with a planet.

Goju - Joe
12/31/2009 2:51pm,
TorontoBJJ is probably your best bet.

My other advice is don't get hung up on the "self defense" image.

Wrestling for example is a sport that people practice for sport and wrestlers IMO can **** up 90% of the people out there.

Proper training in something you enjoy with good "live" sparring will give better self defense skills than most places that emphasize self defense.

G0LG013
12/31/2009 3:54pm,
TorontoBJJ is probably your best bet.

My other advice is don't get hung up on the "self defense" image.

Wrestling for example is a sport that people practice for sport and wrestlers IMO can **** up 90% of the people out there.

Proper training in something you enjoy with good "live" sparring will give better self defense skills than most places that emphasize self defense.


Have you have any experiences with TorontoBJJ? From their schedule it looks like they teach many different things:



BJJ - Brazilian Jiu Jitsu
MMA - Mixed Martial Arts
SW - Submission Wrestling
Wrestling - Takedown Wrestling
MT - Muay Thai kickboxing
S & C - Strength & Conditioning

And the "Unlimited Membership" seems cheap enough. Which class do you guys think I should try?

BJJ Basics or Muay Thai?

Judo is apparently a "members only" class..



Love this quote by the way


The good thing is that most people put up very little resistance to whatever it is you decide to do AFTER you hit them with a planet.

Goju - Joe
12/31/2009 4:04pm,
Have you have any experiences with TorontoBJJ? From their schedule it looks like they teach many different things:



BJJ - Brazilian Jiu Jitsu
MMA - Mixed Martial Arts
SW - Submission Wrestling
Wrestling - Takedown Wrestling
MT - Muay Thai kickboxing
S & C - Strength & Conditioning

And the "Unlimited Membership" seems cheap enough. Which class do you guys think I should try?

BJJ Basics or Muay Thai?

Judo is apparently a "members only" class..



Love this quote by the way


I train at Kombatarts.com in Mississauga so I haven't trained at TorontoBJJ but I hear a lot about them. We might be having a small inter school BJJ comp with them.

Sample each class and see what you like.

Right now I am focusing on BJJ

Aussambo
12/31/2009 6:45pm,
Dude become a memeber do yourself a favor and get in on that Judo class its the way to go, btw only Judo clubs focused on competition will train solely throws and then its usually only the most effective ones in comp. True Kodokan Judo clubs will train Tachi Waza (Standing & Throwing Techniques) and Ne Waza(Ground Fighting & Submissions) equally in one class the advanced Kosen techniques tend to be emphasised after brown belt due to the self defence aspect if you throw someone on their head you can escape quickly give it a go and stick at it you wont be disappointed

NeilG
1/01/2010 1:28pm,
If you're interested in judo, you could probably do worse than JCCC (http://www.jccc.on.ca/martial_arts/judo.htm). It's close to the corner of Don Mills and Eglinton, not sure how that would work for you.