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Beast1989
12/01/2009 6:25pm,
Hello,

I just joined up with this forum today. So far I have lurked around the CMA threads and noticed some pretty solid posters. 'Omega The Merciless', if you read this, your story about how you transitioned to MMA was pretty cool.

Personally, I have never practiced CMA, my background is mainly in a style called Kumo Jiu Jitsu, 'Kumo' meaning 'Spider' in Japanese. Similar in practice to BJJ but with some very noticable differences. Other then that it has been mostly MMA and Muay Thai for me. Oddly enough I had no clue what MMA or even Jiu Jitsu was when I started training.

Anyway, I do have an interest in CMA as well. The GM I train with has a wide and diverse background which includes Kung Fu. My main interest is in Qi Gong.

Several years ago I was givene a book called "The Healing Art of Qi Gong" by Master Hong Liu. The book captivated me and I began practising the exercises that he teaches in the book and also researching the art in general. I am fascinated by the abilities of people who practice Qi Gong to withstand strikes and also to recover from injury or training. One person in particular who has caught my attention is a man by the name of Steve Cotter. If you don't know who he is, look him up on youtube. The guy is an absolute machine.

So, to get to the point of this post, I have been looking for a place that I can study qi gong full time for awhile. Right now I live in Canada but have socked away a fair bit of money to go just about anywhere. One school that I have been looking at quite extensively is the "Wudang Traditional Kung Fu Academy" in China. The website is www.wudanggongfu.com (http://www.wudanggongfu.com)

I was wondering if anybody on these boards has had any experience with this school, whether they had personally been there or had just known of somebody that went. Watching the videos, it seems as if he is a very talented martial artist, but that could mean nothing if the training sucks. Any opinions would be appreciated, or even other suggestions on where to train, keeping in mind that I want to train full time.

Oh, and yes I did see the older post about "A certian school in wudang" but that guy really did not seem to be all that credible.

Kind regards,

It is Fake
12/01/2009 6:48pm,
Save your money. Qi gong, Iron Body, Chi projection, Iron Palm in this vein is Bullshit. Straight up bullshit.

YouTube- Wudang Iron Body(hard qigong)--Bend the spear with the throa (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ac0N0havmQ8)

Before we get into another huge debate I am not saying any of these things are all BS. In the context shown, on the website videos, it is BS.

Now that said, if you want to go learn forms, stretching, wushu and get a good work out have fun. I have no problem with that at all. Just go for the right reasons not, for some type of super healing and impervious BS body technquies.

patfromlogan
12/01/2009 7:12pm,
Hello,

'Omega The Merciless', if you read this, your story about how you transitioned to MMA was pretty cool.,

Hey Beast1989, could you link to that story?
You might be interested in this.
Kiyohisa Hirano was a top karate sensei (1960 All Japan National Karate Champion in Kumite) in HI and after a heart attack he got into Qi Gong heavy.
http://jikc-hawaii.com/about/History.html

Chinese med has stuff that works, that's not the issue. Magic tricks with chi are the issue.

In traditional Judo and Jiu Jitsu, like trad CMA, top practitioners are often experts at shiatzu and putting joints back together and massage and so forth. The thinking is to be able to use locks and take you apart they need to know how to put it back together and basically the knowledge is the same on a certain level - many existing and previous ma's have CMA or other Asian med stuff that give them good body work skills. I've seen it several times - like have had my neck adjusted after getting a head kick etc etc (and it was a girl... TKD, too [but smart enough to go to Kempo] )

Rivington
12/01/2009 7:25pm,
Dude, just go to your local Chinatown (if you have one) and follow along with the old folks in the park.

Lindz
12/01/2009 7:48pm,
Hey Beast1989, could you link to that story?


Probably reffering to this Kung-fu in MMA....This is how I got here. - No BS MMA and Martial Arts (http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=50834)

Beast1989
12/02/2009 12:20am,
In the context shown, on the website videos, it is BS.If you don't mind, could you elaborate on this statement? Is it because the demonstrations really serve no practical value?


Now that said, if you want to go learn forms, stretching, wushu and get a good work out have fun. I have no problem with that at all. Just go for the right reasons not, for some type of super healing and impervious BS body technquies.Exactly, I am not expecting to become Wolverine from the X-Men or anything like that. I just believe that when you train something like Muay Thai which causes a great deal of stress on the body you should also do something to manage that stress and prevent problems, thus prolonging your career. Even if you aren't a fighter, I think it's good policy to deal with issues as they come up and also to prevent them before they happen.

fug, thank you for that story, it is a very interesting one. Something that I did not mention is that when I was a kid I messed up my neck badly while snowboarding and it was never treated properly. So far after years of chiropractic and even some costly alternative therapies I still have issues with it which are keeping me out of the amateur competition circuit and just holding me back in general.



In traditional Judo and Jiu Jitsu, like trad CMA, top practitioners are often experts at shiatzu and putting joints back together and massage and so forth.Yep. Hanshi (means GM in JMA) told me before that all traditional masters of JJ were also experts of healing because of the reasons you listed. We use to have this girl with back problems and I can remember on several occasions watching Hanshi use his tail bone to adjust her spine. It was kind of weird, like traditional chiropractic I guess, but she said that it worked.



Dude, just go to your local Chinatown (if you have one) and follow along with the old folks in the park. Thank you for the advice, but unfortunately I am from a relatively small suburb about an hour outside of Toronto. The average age here, excluding infants, is probably creeping up on 70 now, but still I do not think that there are many old Chinese martial arts masters here. There is only one kung fu school and they teach Wing Chun mainly to students and people in professional careers.

Hopefully somebody comes along that has been to this school :) I appreciate all of your feedback.

Beast1989
12/02/2009 12:27am,
Sorry, but I just noticed this; are you from Hawaii fug?

Assuming I am reading that right, I thought I would mention that Master Hong Liu (the Gi Gong guy that I mentioned earlier) lives there now and works at a University. His story is really interesting. He actually went to med school and worked as a surgeon in the Chinese Army before taking up TCM. Eventually he became a Master and combined his skills together so that he blends TCM with things like chemotherapy and modern drugs. His stories of success on even cancer patients and such are absolutely amazing.

Whathappened
12/02/2009 8:26am,
I'll give you one better, I'll teach you how spot a good teacher.

See the instructor, keep a firm eye on the spot on the lower abdomen.
It should expand and contract there, aka abdominal breathing. Infants breathe this way as do opera/classical vocalist (I'm one). His shoulders would not rise or fall.

His steps should be firm and land heel first (Tai Chi influence)

He or she will do this naturally.

These two clues are most obvious during the demonstration of form. Pay special attention on the standing leg during kicks. A good practitioner's standing leg will be firm throughout the entire kick from start to finish. Basically no wobbling.

Pay close attention as he crouches during the form, a good practitioner will be able to maintain abdominal breathing while crouching and still maintain complete balance throughout the crouch. Bascially no wobbling and shoulders would not rise or fall.

Chili Pepper
12/02/2009 9:23am,
If you don't mind, could you elaborate on this statement? Is it because the demonstrations really serve no practical value?

The spear bending/breaking demo is a stunt. Although it does take practice and incremental training to develop, anyone could learn it and it has absolutely nothing to do with qigong, martial arts or any supposed iron-vest abilities.

I've seen it done up close probably a dozen times - my sifu knew it was a real crowd pleaser, and my role was to brace him to keep him from being pushed back by the spear.

Rather than chasing for something half a world away, you're better off finding a reputable teacher in Toronto, doing a private class or some sort of intensive session, practice the hell out of what you're taught, and return for more classes when possible.

Jack Rusher
12/02/2009 11:02am,
I am fascinated by the abilities of people who practice Qi Gong to withstand strikes and also to recover from injury or training. One person in particular who has caught my attention is a man by the name of Steve Cotter.

Steve Cotter is great. He is a real pioneer in bringing together mixed eastern/western fitness techniques, and I'd give you complete encouragement if you were asking whether you should go work with him.

That said, you should know what qi gong and dao yin can and can't do for you before you run off to China, unless a big part of your goal is to be able to say "I trained with daoists in China!"

On the health side -- including injury prevention and exercise recovery -- these practices are actually quite similar to yoga, and yoga-derived systems like Ginastica Natural, &c. There's nothing special about the Chinese approach that makes it better for these purposes than yoga.

As for withstanding strikes, there are two phases to that goal: (1) become fit and strong with good posture; (2) practice withstanding strikes. Steve Cotter's mix of calisthenics, plyometrics, kettlebell exercises and postural work is great for the former goal, while the kyokushin practice of holding good structure/posture and breathing properly while being beaten is among the best methods to develop the latter.

Turning knives, bending spears, bursting cables is basically circus geekery that can be learned by anyone, whether or not they've developed the skills that are actually relevant to health and combat. Do not judge anyone on their ability to perform these feats.

Lastly, if you want to get a good sense of what proper IMA training is like before running off to the other side of the world, check out Shou-Yu Liang's school in Vancouver (http://www.shouyuliang.com). He offers quality instruction in qi gong, ICMA (taijiquan, bagua, xingyi) and san shou at that facility.

Good luck with your training.

Rivington
12/02/2009 11:05am,
Thank you for the advice, but unfortunately I am from a relatively small suburb about an hour outside of Toronto. The average age here, excluding infants, is probably creeping up on 70 now, but still I do not think that there are many old Chinese martial arts masters here.



Qi gong is an extremely common practice; you don't need to study under a CMA master to learn it. In fact, a big pile of Chinese people around the age of 70 is just about the perfect environment for qi gong!

Jack Rusher
12/03/2009 10:30pm,
This reminds me: we could probably do with a cleanup of the wall o' stickies in the CMA forum. Maybe a smaller number of stickies each of which calls out to a set of threads? The Fitness/Diet subforum did something like that awhile ago.

It is Fake
12/04/2009 12:44am,
This reminds me: we could probably do with a cleanup of the wall o' stickies in the CMA forum. Maybe a smaller number of stickies each of which calls out to a set of threads? The Fitness/Diet subforum did something like that awhile ago.Already started working on it. We actually had three more before Fug posted.

wudangtiger
12/08/2009 6:44am,
Yes the school you are looking at is good. It is in Wudang town itself and the Shifu not only is a good teacher but speaks good English so there is no comunication problem. The school is well established and many western students can be found there. Sorry you did not consider me to be credible... good luck with your training.

wudangtiger
12/08/2009 8:04am,
One other thing dude. If you are genuine about going to the PRC and spending your time and money as you say you are, then think of this. Firstly, try to study as much Qigong at home before you go, bear in mind that there are many aspects and styles to Qigong. I studied 'soft,hard,soft' Qigong for a few years in Fujian under one of the great white crane Grandmasters. The Wudang styles I were taught do not compare. Also, when you get to Wudang, if you intend to stay for a long time, ie a year or more as I did, do not pay everything in advance... pay for 3 months, this keeps the school keen to keep you happy - by that I mean teach you well.

wudangtiger
12/11/2009 8:31am,
Hey beast... don't forget to let me know when (if) you get here. I'm really looking forward to meeting you.