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Miguksaram
11/06/2002 3:13pm,
I tried to post this in the SCARS Video topic but for some reason I am unable to post there so I will place my questions here.

TRUTHHURTS21,

First of all I want to thank you for giving some more insites into you system. You are actually debating unlike another SCARS practitioner called KungFools does. By the way have you seen his posts and does he represent the views of most SCARS practitioners? If not, then I am relieved to hear that. If so, then I think SCARS need to rethink a lot of things.

My main question right now is what I have seen in the website and a statement that you made.

On the website it shows a man kicking high into another man's face. The positioning and the motion looks to be totally wrong or done solely for a glamour shot if you will. Is this what SCARS teaches?

Also, you made the statement "Regardless of what Peterson said, we never attempt to expect a certain action from an individual." Isn't Peterson the founder of SCARS? As a beginner, I would hold his words to be the "Truth" of SCARS, but I am hearing from you that you are doign things totally different. So which way do I turn?


Jeremy M. Talbott
http://www.homestead.com/koreanma/index.html
http://www.geocities.com/jns1994/MSA.html

TRUTHHURTS21
11/06/2002 7:48pm,
Miguksaram,

"First of all I want to thank you for giving some more insites into you system."

No prob. Always glad to shed some light on SCARS myths.

"You are actually debating unlike another SCARS practitioner called KungFools does. By the way have you seen his posts and does he represent the views of most SCARS practitioners?"

Kungfools has his opinion when it comes to certain things. In regards to the SCARS system and application of principles, I have yet to see an inaccurate explaination of how they work. As a matter of fact, Kungfools knows more about the true application of the system than a lot of SCARS practitioners I've met. When you take out the side comments, he knows what he's talking about.

"If not, then I am relieved to hear that. If so, then I think SCARS need to rethink a lot of things."

Please explain those things so I can get an idea of if it's the actual info from SCARS, or Kungfools opinion.

"On the website it shows a man kicking high into another man's face. The positioning and the motion looks to be totally wrong or done solely for a glamour shot if you will. Is this what SCARS teaches?"

I need to see it for myself, but I think I know what you're talking about. The mechanics behind each movement has the ability to transfer a certain amount of force to take out targets. you'll notice that Peterson's foot is always flat, no matter how high he kicks (I believe he kicked the throat, that doesn't require much). You'll notice that techniques are never explained in Black Belt Magazine. That's because The amount of information behind the move would take up too much space. It would easily be misunderstood if they shortened the explaination of how, why, etc.

"Also, you made the statement "Regardless of what Peterson said, we never attempt to expect a certain action from an individual." Isn't Peterson the founder of SCARS? As a beginner, I would hold his words to be the "Truth" of SCARS, but I am hearing from you that you are doign things totally different. So which way do I turn?"

I'll have to find out what he actually said first. Please excuse me if I don't get back for a day or so, I'm pretty busy. Peterson has said on NUMEROUS occasions that you sould NOT expect a certain attack.

Miguksaram
11/06/2002 8:06pm,
Thanks for a reply again.

I have never seen any of KF's post about SCARS itself. Mostly all I have seen him do is place stories about gutter scums who, unfortunately, took martial arts and the news people felt the need to exploit that part of their past. Then he exploits these stories as propaganda of why TMA is all bad and does nothing but produce thugs and that is why SCARS is the ultimate truth. It is these side issues as you said, that prompts me to ask if this is the general thinking of SCARS. If it was then I feel in my opinoin that they need to rethink this view point as it is irrational. To see the example, just read the his posts where he places.



Jeremy M. Talbott
http://www.homestead.com/koreanma/index.html
http://www.geocities.com/jns1994/MSA.html

KJM
11/07/2002 1:28am,
I find it so funny that Kungclueless & TRUTHHURTS21 Think that SCARS is a new System they try so hard to make it sound something new or different. When it's San Soo for Dummy's Thats Truth" of SCARS.TRUTHHURTS21 quote>> Kungfools knows more about the true application of the system than a lot of SCARS practitioners I've met TRUTHHURTS21 Why hasn't he logged one hour in SCIS? If jerry is looking for instructors why does he take the ICQ from home? SCARS practitioners is a person who sit on the side lines and thinks his better than the operators or instructors his a WANNABE I am happy that Kungclueless found a friend like TRUTHHURTS21 now he wont sit alone on the side lines .Maybe you two can make a SCARS cheerleader squat.

TRUTHHURTS21
11/07/2002 7:00am,
Completely unprofessional kjm. If you can't speak logically about an issue, I won't waste my time caring what you have to say.

TRUTHHURTS21
11/07/2002 7:18am,
Miguksaram,

Kungfools has his opinions on that. He does not speak for all SCARS practitioners with his opinions of martial artists. But when he speaks of why he doesn't like a system, I have agreed with him on why, from what I've seen so far (again, take away the side comments).

J-kid
11/07/2002 7:34am,
Sorry from what i have heard and seen , SCARS dosnt seem good for self defense. Can i see a vidoe where its in use in a real fight.

That would be cool.

Shawn

TRUTHHURTS21
11/07/2002 8:52am,
You're definately welcome to your opinion Judo-kid. But that video would would be a slim chance unless a supposed SCARS practitioner was stupid enough to go around commiting crimes and keeping evidence. Someone who is competent enough to understand the dynamics behind the system wouldn't be that stupid.

Miguksaram
11/07/2002 3:24pm,
Well, the trouble is TH is that KF has nothing but side comments. I have yet to read one post where he talks about the science of SCARS.

I am glad to hear that he doesn't speak for the group as a whole. So when you say you don't prepare for any certain attacks how does that make SCARS different from Muay Thai or BJJ or any martial art?

Jeremy M. Talbott
http://www.homestead.com/koreanma/index.html
http://www.geocities.com/jns1994/MSA.html

KC Elbows
11/07/2002 3:47pm,
I asked this in the old thread.

You suggest that other arts are innefficient because they have to access moves from the brain. Which covers all of the arts, from bak mei to muay thai, boxing and bjj as well. Now, since ALL other fields of study I can think of have the same requirement, I think the burden of proof is on you to suggest a method by which this process can be bypassed. After all, for peterson to do the high kick you mentioned, his brain had to access all of the particulars, angle, how to throw power, etc. By study, the access can be made very quick, but it still occurs. What you are suggesting flies in the face of science. It is unscientific. This seems to be the only distinction that SCARS practitioners can site as the reason for its so-called superiority as a training system.

If I didn't know better, I'd think you were taking the expression 'muscle memory' literally.

Could you please explain in more clear terms what you mean by these things.

Miguksaram
11/07/2002 5:39pm,
Well put KC.

Jeremy M. Talbott
http://www.homestead.com/koreanma/index.html
http://www.geocities.com/jns1994/MSA.html

DCM Fighter
11/08/2002 2:54am,
test

DCM Fighter
11/08/2002 2:55am,
Ok. That was strange. I wasn't able to reply on other posts for a few days. Anyway, my beef with scars is that all scars practitoners talk about all this scientific stuff but they NEVER go into any detial of how something works; it's always very vauge. Like the body can only move so many ways and things like that, but they never go anywhere with it. That's why I think most scars guys are all talk. They have a few good ideas but can't effectively apply them. I've seen those videos and it's rediculas. Plus truthhurts, you mentioned that the movements on the video were overdone to make the movements clear for a beginner. They said nothing on the video about it and I'm sure if that was the case that'd be something important to include so someone doesn't get confused, and even made statements of how this is how you're to do the technique, and see how much power you get? Things like that. My opinion hasn't changed at all.

Edited by - DCM Fighter on November 08 2002 02:02:50

SifuAbel
11/08/2002 3:01am,
"You suggest that other arts are innefficient because they have to access moves from the brain. Which covers all of the arts, from bak mei to muay thai, boxing and bjj as well."

This is complete and total horsechips. Reflexive muscle memory is by no means the sole domain of the "scientists". It IS a staple of most if not all MA developement. You guys will convince yourself of anything. You guys should change your focus to political speech wrighting.

Peedee and kungfools hold hands during sad movies.


Edited by - Kungfudoeswork on November 08 2002 02:03:29

KJM
11/08/2002 5:31am,
TRUTHHURTS21 I understand the dynamics behind the SCARS system I took SCARS before it was SCARS in 85 when Jerry called his company Optimum control systems before he went with TRS I have over 200 hr in SCIS I have my ICQ certification though my job.That why I can tell you that SCARS is San Soo. So please tell me your knowledge on SCARS prove to that SCARS isn't San Soo. I can say one thing about Jerry Peterson he got his hands on every piece of information of Jimmy Woo's and reworded & repackage it and then tm. and copyrighted it. That how he thinks SCARS isn't San Soo.

DRD
11/08/2002 6:20am,
I have the scars system and we put no more or less emphasis on it as any other information we gather. We take the usefull from many arts and throw away the unworkable. The body reactions that scars works off of in part is certainly true from a predictability standpoint. I would not rate it outstanding nor useless. It has a decent strike chart that is well laid out and yes it is obvious that the one being attacked is reacting to pre-practiced movements being employed against him, but that is also very typical of martial arts video's. Scars has it's workable things and it's laughable. DRD