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maxthegeek1
11/11/2009 2:50am,
I remember seeing a full contact aikido video with striking and full resistance a while ago. Remembering that, and looked a bit on youtube, and I found this

http://www.youtube.com/user/hatenkaiaikido#p/a/u/1/xlM3ps43yQw

(3 videos)

Not sure if they are the same people as the ones a saw a while ago. I also found this.

http://www.dailymotion.pl/video/x8d8ge_full-contact-aikido-hatenkaiyaikido_sport

(5 videos)

I thought these videos were pretty impressive. I have never taken Aikido, however it is my understanding that the majority of aikido is not like this, especially in the US. People on this board often deny the efficacy of aikido, which I took at face value. However these videos make me think that its really the ***** martial artists/training that is ineffective, not the techniques. I really don't know.

Discuss (especially people who have taken aikido)

Necroyunus
11/11/2009 3:01am,
Actually I have some friends from bjj or thai boxing that started to take aikido classes out of boredom.(Cuz the gym price is fixed you can take anything you want)
Even my instructors takes it.And he says %5 percent of it can be used in real life so it's better than doing nothing.
They never say it is deadly or it is a ultimate style or something.They have their own styles that they have been traning for years.However they say that it can give you some ideas.Which I agree.

Necroyunus
11/11/2009 3:13am,
By the way I just saw the videos. They were funny.

If this is the way they fight (looking at opponents hands,trying to hold and do something) I can say they can be assraped in a real fight.Even against a drunkard.

It looks like this: :ingun:


And I suppose that low kick is an old aikido technique??


Not impressed.

Libertad
11/11/2009 3:13am,
Which part of these videos show anything full contact?

maxthegeek1
11/11/2009 3:18am,
Which part of these videos show anything full contact?

http://www.dailymotion.pl/video/x8d8ge_full-contact-aikido-hatenkaiyaikido_sport

http://www.dailymotion.pl/video/x6ramh_fullycontactyaikidoyhatenkaiy-compe_sport

http://www.youtube.com/user/hatenkaiaikido#p/a/u/0/V89lgXI3JJY

Kyokushin rules + aikido techniques i think. If not full contact, this is at least very hard contact.

http://www.youtube.com/user/hatenkaiaikido#p/a/u/1/xlM3ps43yQw

This is grappling only, but they appear to be fully resisting.

(watch the videos before posting)

Libertad
11/11/2009 3:26am,
http://www.dailymotion.pl/video/x8d8ge_full-contact-aikido-hatenkaiyaikido_sport

http://www.dailymotion.pl/video/x6ramh_fullycontactyaikidoyhatenkaiy-compe_sport

http://www.youtube.com/user/hatenkaiaikido#p/a/u/0/V89lgXI3JJY

Kyokushin rules + aikido techniques i think. If not full contact, this is at least very hard contact.

http://www.youtube.com/user/hatenkaiaikido#p/a/u/1/xlM3ps43yQw

This is grappling only, but they appear to be fully resisting.

(watch the videos before posting)


I watched these videos, I don't think you understand what full contact is.

YouTube- Buakaw K1 Max Muay Thai Fighter (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0-8nOzLx54)

(please note the difference in contact)

Libertad
11/11/2009 3:28am,
http://www.youtube.com/user/hatenkaiaikido#p/a/u/1/xlM3ps43yQw

This is grappling only, but they appear to be fully resisting.



Have you competed in BJJ comps?

maxthegeek1
11/11/2009 4:21am,
Have you competed in BJJ comps?

Yes I have competed. It seems to me that there is a good amount of resistance if not what you'd expect from a bjj competition.

Fine its not full contact. But its as much contact as you'd expect from a kickboxing sparring match. Those leg kicks sounded hard.

Anyways guys, just try and be objective in your judgements. Compare the level of contact and resistance present in these videos to the levels present in your own training.

If the conclusion is indeed aikido techniques have no merit, establish why thats the case in reference to these videos.

Larus marinus
11/11/2009 4:34am,
Well, there does seem to be a distinct lack of "Grab my wrist... No, the other one... No, my left wrist... No, my *other* left..."

The grappling video did remind me a bit of a ruffer version of Wing Chun pattycake though. Just my first impression.

nomamao
11/11/2009 8:50am,
1) I'm not sure what is going on there, but only once in 8 videos did I see anyone go for some sort of head control or actively attempt a leg takedown.

2) In those two cases, the person attempting was able to get the takedown, even though their arms were "captured".


I think that speaks volumes for what's wrong with their method of training. Not saying that they don't go hard, but that they are sacrificing more dominant moves in favor of the flavor of what they think is true aikido.

That's just my opinion, though. Hey, it's definitely better than other aikido out in the world.

Larus marinus
11/11/2009 9:41am,
1) I'm not sure what is going on there, but only once in 8 videos did I see anyone go for some sort of head control or actively attempt a leg takedown.

2) In those two cases, the person attempting was able to get the takedown, even though their arms were "captured".


I think that speaks volumes for what's wrong with their method of training. Not saying that they don't go hard, but that they are sacrificing more dominant moves in favor of the flavor of what they think is true aikido.

That's just my opinion, though. Hey, it's definitely better than other aikido out in the world.

You've got to give them credit for at least recognizing that there is a problem and making an earnest attempt to fix up their art and make it work. Well, I do at least.... :new_tomat

DCS
11/11/2009 10:11am,
Full contact? No
Aliveness? Yes but with a very restrictive ruleset and encouraging the less appropiate aikido techniques for the task.

nightowl
11/11/2009 6:48pm,
Here is the Hatenkai Aikido webpage (http://www.hatenkai.jp/). Snooping around a bit the instructor (http://www.hatenkai.jp/instructor/index.html) claims a varied Aikido backround, but what stood out to me was his training in the organization calling itself "Shoot" (as in shooto I'm assuming) akido (webpage). (http://www.aikido-sa.com/)

I'll see if I can find any videos of "Shoot Aikido" later, but for now the Hatenkai training looks like mild resistance training- which is a huge step over most aikido.

DCS
11/11/2009 7:11pm,
Shoot Aikido (http://www.budovideos.com/shop/customer/product.php?productid=27034) was founded some years ago by Fumio Sakurai, Gozo Shioda uchideshi and Yoshinkan Hombu shihan.

Dark Fire
11/11/2009 7:16pm,
I train in Tomiki Aikido and after training in BJJ the problem I see with Tomiki Aikido is that nobody really isn't sure of the proper way to do the techniques or even being able to explain the physics behind them.

I've only done BJJ for a little while now, but where I train they explain how the technique works and the proper way to do it. Then you do that over and over again.

However there doesn't really seem to be any of that in Tomiki Aikido. Sure, there is the kata, but you never really get a sense of why you are doing those movements or even how they work if they work.

And I think some of the problem is the training structure and the competition rule set. For example in Tomiki Aikido you can not sweep. The reason they give for that is that they don't want it to turn into Judo. However my response to that would be if Tomiki Aikido really has something to offer and is actually effective, wouldn't people still use it as opposed to doing sweeps and throws? It seems to me that the Tomiki Aikido guys are really afraid of seeing their system become obsolete.

So it seems to me that the problem with full contact is that nobody is really sure how to do the techniques due to a flawed training structure and a general lack of knowledge of how and why the technique works if it even does.

In competitions you don't really see that many techniques being done. The reason for that may be the techniques themselves or the training. Another thing in Tomiki Aikido is that you are getting alot of really strong guys coming and doing stupid stuff like trying to run you out of the ring or running at you trying to slap your face to try to force you out the ring.

I am of coursed bias when I say this, but the other Aikido disciplines shouldn't be talking about their techniques working until they can come to a Tomiki Aikido competition and do it.

I would love to try to make the techniques more effective, but alas I do not know how. Maybe change the kata so instead of doing these movements that you never use in competition to something that you would in competition. Kinda like you are learning the technique to actually do the technique. What it is now is that you learn some movements, call it a technique then are thrown out into the world trying to figure out how to actually use it.

Just my two cents.

CoffeeFan
11/11/2009 7:19pm,
Those videos weren't full contact or very impressive. Yes they are using resistance, which is better then most Aikido, but I really don't see much value in that kind of training