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devilboy7778
11/06/2009 8:59pm,
I write this because when looking in the search of bullshido forums I couldn't find a review of someone going to a systema seminar or school.
My neighbor started to train me in Muay Thai and Kali when I was threatened by a kid with a knife. He used to give self-defense lessons at Degerberg's martial art school (he stopped after a couple years, probably when it started to give little kids black belts and opened up a ninja turtle class).
He likes basics and really just taught me three things, get stronger, strike first, and don't believe in chi. I never have and never will; neither will he. But Systema has always caught his attention. He bought videos but didn't learn anything from them (I couldn't understand them either). He finally went to a seminar and said it was the most painful experience of his life and here's why.
If you take out all that internal energy the principle of the ballistics punch its pretty much striking with one's knuckles BUT a few principles that make it work a lot better. He showed it to me and it did hurt... a lot, and he didn't even try to punch me hard.
It impressed me and I think my investigation of Systema has concluded with it's good stuff.
Anyone else every try Systema? If so what was your opinion, and who was your instructor?

Cheers

P.S. I dont believe in the internal energy crap they try to pull but I did like the punch a lot.

Larus marinus
11/06/2009 9:11pm,
This thread might not be in the correct forum - but here goes...

I've heard a quite lot about these weird Systema punches, both good and bad. Were you ever given an explanation of the physics behind them?

As I understand it, you don't 'throw' the punch as such - rather, you sort of allow gravity to pound your opponent with the weight of your arm, if that makes any sense. I've read feedback stating that they really do hurt - a lot. Others say that they're next to useless...

CoffeeFan
11/06/2009 9:12pm,
DB-

This thread belongs in Newbietown, not MABS, which is for Investigations. I'll let a mod know so they can move it. I've looked at some systema videos and found their stuff horrible. That being said, I wouldn't mind going to a seminar and seeing first hand their stuff.

Larus marinus
11/06/2009 9:19pm,
DB-

This thread belongs in Newbietown, not MABS, which is for Investigations. I'll let a mod know so they can move it. I've looked at some systema videos and found their stuff horrible. That being said, I wouldn't mind going to a seminar and seeing first hand their stuff.

I wouldn't really like to definitively call BS on the effectiveness of the punches. I've never been on the end of one and there seem to be a heck of a lot of guys who say that they found them useful.

The knife/gun disarm stuff is freaking awful, nay, suicidal, however - and it would seem that some of the Systema guys believe in no-touch knockdowns and throws.

AlphaFoxtrot51
11/06/2009 9:29pm,
http://www.youtube.com/user/IFAacademy#p/u/34/llghREA_D8A

Lindz
11/06/2009 9:32pm,
Final Report: Systema- - No BS MMA and Martial Arts (http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=36200)

Mr. Machette
11/06/2009 10:33pm,
This thread might not be in the correct forum - but here goes...

I've heard a quite lot about these weird Systema punches, both good and bad. Were you ever given an explanation of the physics behind them?

As I understand it, you don't 'throw' the punch as such - rather, you sort of allow gravity to pound your opponent with the weight of your arm, if that makes any sense. I've read feedback stating that they really do hurt - a lot. Others say that they're next to useless...
There's a slap they do. Cupped palm, target is not quite the ear, but right in front of it. Kind of the whole jaw, ear area. The blow is the usual Sytema relaxed arm being swung almost like a flail, and SLAP to the meat of the face.

I've tried it out on myself a little, cupping the palm and hitting myself in that region, and it does seem to give a little more "oomph" than the same blow with a clenched fist. Let me explain:

The fist hits, and I feel pain, but it is superficial, the tissue and bones hurt.

The cupped palm though, seems to rattle the insides of the head. The blow is felt mostly behind the jawbone, radiating throughout the skull.

The idea is that the cupped air focuses the energy into the target, instead of letting it dissipate on the surface.

Such a strike to the ear itself is well known, and not very nice! But this one targets the nerve cluster in your sinuses, attempting to rattle the ganglion, and ring the bell so to speak. ( instead of busting the eardrum.) As I said, it seems to focus the strike internally when targeted loosely right in front of the ear, sort of the back of the cheek, corner of the jaw. A big cupped paw right over that area. For force, throw it like an overhand pimp slap. Turn the hips and put weight into it.

You may all now continue laughing at me for trying strikes on myself. (I havent had the chance to try it on someone else yet... What? I'm a peaceful guy o.k.?)

Does anybody else want to experiment with that strike and let me know what they think though?

I found it interesting enough to warant risking ridicule here so...

...let me know what results you get if you try it.

Tom Kagan
11/06/2009 11:26pm,
I havent had the chance to try it on someone else yet


Aristotelian technique: a technique performed using attacks learned solely from theoretical speculation untainted by any experiential data by one who feels that the latter is irrelevant anyway.

From:
The Compleat Guide to __ng __un Philosophy - No BS MMA and Martial Arts (http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=31599)


Does anybody else want to experiment with that strike and let me know what they think though?

Hey moron,

How about *YOU* try it?

AlphaFoxtrot51
11/06/2009 11:27pm,
Does anybody else want to experiment with that strike and let me know what they think though?

Sure...I'd be more than happy to give you the good ole' Russian pimp-hand...where are we meeting up?

Larus marinus
11/07/2009 12:04am,
You may all now continue laughing at me for trying strikes on myself. (I havent had the chance to try it on someone else yet... What? I'm a peaceful guy o.k.?)

Does anybody else want to experiment with that strike and let me know what they think though?

I found it interesting enough to warant risking ridicule here so...

...let me know what results you get if you try it.

Is this a ploy to get people to punch themselves in the face at their keyboards? :evil4:

For some reason, my body tries to stop me from doing that.

I tried out some Systema-style punches (mimicked off of YouTube to the best of my ability) on my punchball the other day. I can confirm that they nearly knocked the thing over on its sand-filled base. That said, I can also do that with less effort by throwing a haymaker or uppercutting it.

AlphaFoxtrot51
11/07/2009 12:20am,
Is this a ploy to get people to punch themselves in the face at their keyboards? :evil4:

For some reason, my body tries to stop me from doing that.

I tried out some Systema-style punches (mimicked off of YouTube to the best of my ability) on my punchball the other day. I can confirm that they nearly knocked the thing over on its sand-filled base. That said, I can also do that with less effort by throwing a haymaker or uppercutting it.

Or throwing a right hook...or any other punch for that matter.

SaintHamish
11/07/2009 2:26am,
The power must come from his midsection....


YouTube- Mikhail Ryabko teaching Systema Punching (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRnQSYQZ6OI)

devilboy7778
11/07/2009 2:27am,
Or throwing a right hook...or any other punch for that matter.
Those punches are pretty much the same as the systema ones, but systema is a lot more relaxed. And watching on youtube is nothing like the real thing my friend, trust me i was doing the exact same thing.

devilboy7778
11/07/2009 2:30am,
The power must come from his midsection....


YouTube- Mikhail Ryabko teaching Systema Punching (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRnQSYQZ6OI)
The hammor here represents how hard you clench your fist. When the guy gets hit the breathing he does makes the punches less painfull.

Larus marinus
11/07/2009 7:01pm,
Those punches are pretty much the same as the systema ones, but systema is a lot more relaxed. And watching on youtube is nothing like the real thing my friend, trust me i was doing the exact same thing.

Yeah - to be honest, I was mainly just goofing around at my punch ball.


It was this vid (posted before) that made me curious...

YouTube- Systema punch (common punch vs Systema Punch) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tzGD5riUvY)

ttankzero
11/07/2009 8:59pm,
Pseudoscientific explanation of my view on the difference between the punches:

It seems to me from the videos, with a Systema punch you use the physics of your body to treat your joints as multiple lever arms in order to accelerate your hand to the highest possible speed before you strike your opponent. The result is that you have a faster contact leading to more initial pressure. This is why it stings the skin and muscle more. However, you sacrifice having your full body weight and muscle force driving behind it, meaning that your total impulse takes a very very significant cut.

A more straightforward hit might not be as topically painiful, but will better stagger or check the distance of an opponent.

Also, with gloves on the effect of impact speed on surface pressure is deadened, which kind of makes it inoppurtune for most types of comptetition.