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honest_truth
10/13/2009 11:32pm,
A quick background story: I have adequate striking skills and i am looking to cross train n stuff.

I recently started no gi-BJJ at my university for 3 months, the classes are awesome, but they are once a week (1.5 hours of instruction, 12 classes a semester total) and thats the only time i can attend anyway because of severe time constraints (full time studying as a senior in univ, part time job, MT classes 2x a week, little social life, bla bla bla).

=========
So, whenever its time to roll i always pull guard and work from there, my reasons are as following:

1) figured if i fight ammy MMA in the near future or have to use my power on T3H S7R3375, i would keep the fight standing up at all costs, my striking is my strongest point, in the clinch i think i could hold my own with knee/elbow/push-back-to-striking, so if i do end up on the ground i will probably have someone in my guard (best scenario) or have them mounted on me (worst scenario), either way, i am on the bottom, if i am on top i would GnP and stand up as soon as my opponent shows any hints he knows BJJ.

2) this isnt on-going training, its only 18 hours spread over 3 months that teaches basic BJJ, so i am treating it as a crash course, and thus try to learn enough of something to atleast manage to keep myself from getting raped for when i start seriously training in grappling (judo, BJJ).

3) i find it easier to concentrate on getting one aspect of the game in working condition instead of trying to learn everything at once, i'm not planning on winning the mundials any time soon.

4) our class is filled with muscle head UFC watching ex-wrestlers and there is no fucking way i am starting any clinch games if i cant use my MT, today a guy got taken down so hard he nearly broke a rib and had to sit out for the rest of the rolling, he agreed to roll with me later because i pull guard, i also got my deltoid muscle completely torn and couldnt move my arm for 2~3 weeks after being taken down by a wrestler while trying to BJJ from the knees at my MT club.

5) i can control people better from the guard and occasionally manage to get a triangle choke or armbar (like today), since sometimes i roll with muscle heads i prefer to stay somewhere i can control them and not have them try to crank my neck 360 or do kneebars/ankle locks they seen on youtube, again, this is a crash course and not on going training, i wont learn much anyways.

So, is my pulling guard reasons justified ?
Should i even be worried about constantly pulling guard ?
Am i deluded and should concentrate on something else given my case ?
Tips on how to butt-flop and get better at setting up moves from the guard ?

Omega Supreme
10/13/2009 11:44pm,
No.

Bad reasons.

* edit I should have said:
No
Yes
Yes
No

honest_truth
10/13/2009 11:47pm,
No.

Bad reasons.

* edit I should have said:
No
Yes
Yes
No

Orly?

Discuss.


EDIT: still, elaborate a bit more on the no's

Omega Supreme
10/13/2009 11:52pm,
IMO you should work on guard for one reason. Train yourself to work out of a bad position. In MMA jumping guard should be the last thing on your mind. If you constantly train it you will fall back on it when the going gets rough. I've seen this in real life. My friend is a Brown belt who just got into MMA. Guess what he does in competition? He drops to guard and taps people. Guess what happens in MMA? He drops to guard and gets caught with all the things you don't prep for.

My first goal that I teach my guys is stand up. Don't play the guard game. My second is keep a live guard. Lastly I tell them to jump guard when all else fails but as a last resort.

My advice: learn how to get out get reset if you're going to do MMA.

3moose1
10/13/2009 11:58pm,
Your first mistake is being Canadian.

3moose1
10/13/2009 11:58pm,
Everything you do will be wrong.

Because you're Canadian.

honest_truth
10/14/2009 12:03am,
Your first mistake is being Canadian.


Everything you do will be wrong.

Because you're Canadian.
HAHAH
suck cock

i actually immigrated a couple of years ago and still hold a permanent resident card, not yet a Cantnadian, but working on it, you just wait and soon you will be able to out-everything me.


IMO you should work on guard for one reason. Train yourself to work out of a bad position. In MMA jumping guard should be the last thing on your mind. If you constantly train it you will fall back on it when the going gets rough. I've seen this in real life. My friend is a Brown belt who just got into MMA. Guess what he does in competition? He drops to guard and taps people. Guess what happens in MMA? He drops to guard and gets caught with all the things you don't prep for.

My first goal that I teach my guys is stand up. Don't play the guard game. My second is keep a live guard. Lastly I tell them to jump guard when all else fails but as a last resort.

My advice: learn how to get out get reset if you're going to do MMA.

Thanks, i will keep this in mind and reconsider what i am doing.

3moose1
10/14/2009 12:37am,
HAHAH I love to
suck cock.

Good to hear...I guess...





i actually immigrated a couple of years ago and still hold a permanent resident card, not yet a Cantnadian, but working on it,

Jesus, you're worse then a normal Cantnadian. I like that word though. Too bad you won't get credit for creating it...due to being Cantnadian.




you just wait and soon you will be able to out-everything me.


Already there, sweet cheeks. Just wait till you see the thread I'm making tomorrow night...

EternalRage
10/14/2009 12:57am,
If you are trying to keep it standing at all costs, why would you pull guard??

3moose1
10/14/2009 1:38am,
If you are trying to keep it standing at all costs, why would you pull guard??

He's canadian. He's accepted he's going to fail, and wants to fail on his terms.

Which makes him fail that much harder.

Damn canadians.

Hesperus
10/14/2009 2:29am,
If you are trying to keep it standing at all costs, why would you pull guard??
You just couldn't be bothered to actually read his post, could you?

AKRhino
10/14/2009 1:04pm,
IMO you should work on guard for one reason. Train yourself to work out of a bad position. In MMA jumping guard should be the last thing on your mind. If you constantly train it you will fall back on it when the going gets rough. I've seen this in real life. My friend is a Brown belt who just got into MMA. Guess what he does in competition? He drops to guard and taps people. Guess what happens in MMA? He drops to guard and gets caught with all the things you don't prep for.

My first goal that I teach my guys is stand up. Don't play the guard game. My second is keep a live guard. Lastly I tell them to jump guard when all else fails but as a last resort.

My advice: learn how to get out get reset if you're going to do MMA.

Omega, or someone else better than me:

I am a guard player. Have been ever since I started jits. In the beginning everyone was stronger than me, and would force me onto my back anyway, so I started working the guard. I know exactly what you mean. The guard is my happy place. That's where I want to be. When it comes to MMA, I agree whole heartedly with you, the bottom, in general, is not where you want to be.

However, I have no intention of ever fighting MMA. I've been training jits over 3 years now, and my guard game has gotten pretty decent.

Needless to say, my top game is not nearly as advanced as my bottom game, although I am pretty decent at passing guard, I tend to stall in side control or mount. Now, I understand the importance of having a balanced game, which is why I have worked a lot on my sweep game. Still, when the going gets rough, I want to be in guard.

My coach doesn't like it. He says in competition (jits), you don't want to play guard. I watch a lot of grappling on youtube, and I've reached a different conclusion. I see a lot of high level guys jumping guard.

My thoughts are that my coach wants me to fight MMA (it's become something of a sore spot between us), and therefore wants me to train things that are more effective from an MMA standpoint. I refuse to fight MMA. I don't want to fight MMA, I don't like training MMA, and I hate sparring MMA.

My question to you is: Is my coach right that my tendency to jump guard is bad for jits competition?

Keep in mind I live in Alaska, and we don't have jits competitions up here. And we're not likely to GET any jits competitions up here. I've competed twice, went 1-1 in a tournament (lost to one of my teammates in the second round), and then I beat another guy last year (these were all sub grappling no-gi competitions). My guard game won both my matches for me, and I lost via triangle (from his guard).

Hedgehogey
10/14/2009 1:22pm,
1) figured if i fight ammy MMA in the near future or have to use my power on T3H S7R3375, i would keep the fight standing up at all costs, my striking is my strongest point, in the clinch i think i could hold my own with knee/elbow/push-back-to-striking, so if i do end up on the ground i will probably have someone in my guard (best scenario) or have them mounted on me (worst scenario), either way, i am on the bottom, if i am on top i would GnP and stand up as soon as my opponent shows any hints he knows BJJ.

A: As Osiris famously said, BJJ is such overkill for a streetfight that it doesn't matter what you do, yo're going to win it anyway.

B: You shouldn't fight MMA until you've got a record racked up in single range sports (BJJ, Judo, MT) already.

C: Anyone who tells you "the guard's no good for MMA" is an idiot. Your guard reflects your attitude. If you train with the attitude of OH **** HE'S IN MY GUARD BRUH, GOTSTA STAND UP BECAUSE HE COULD BE RAPING MY FACE WITH HIS KNUCKLES THAT SAY HATE AND WAR HRBLRBLRBL then you will have a shitty guard. If you play an attacking guard that's what you will have. Yes, this carries over to MMA.

Take this fight here: At 25:00, my coach from Austin pounds out a decision by controlling and elbowing his opponent who's in his guard (http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XOTI3NTc5MzY=.htm).



3) i find it easier to concentrate on getting one aspect of the game in working condition instead of trying to learn everything at once, i'm not planning on winning the mundials any time soon.

Then don't plan on fighting MMA soon either.


5) i can control people better from the guard and occasionally manage to get a triangle choke or armbar (like today), since sometimes i roll with muscle heads i prefer to stay somewhere i can control them and not have them try to crank my neck 360 or do kneebars/ankle locks they seen on youtube, again, this is a crash course and not on going training, i wont learn much anyways.

Do you have an instructor?



Tips on how to butt-flop and get better at setting up moves from the guard ?

That's a very broad question.

Omega Supreme
10/14/2009 1:33pm,
Omega, or someone else better than me:

I am a guard player. Have been ever since I started jits. In the beginning everyone was stronger than me, and would force me onto my back anyway, so I started working the guard. I know exactly what you mean. The guard is my happy place. That's where I want to be. When it comes to MMA, I agree whole heartedly with you, the bottom, in general, is not where you want to be.

However, I have no intention of ever fighting MMA. I've been training jits over 3 years now, and my guard game has gotten pretty decent.

Needless to say, my top game is not nearly as advanced as my bottom game, although I am pretty decent at passing guard, I tend to stall in side control or mount. Now, I understand the importance of having a balanced game, which is why I have worked a lot on my sweep game. Still, when the going gets rough, I want to be in guard.

My coach doesn't like it. He says in competition (jits), you don't want to play guard. I watch a lot of grappling on youtube, and I've reached a different conclusion. I see a lot of high level guys jumping guard.

My thoughts are that my coach wants me to fight MMA (it's become something of a sore spot between us), and therefore wants me to train things that are more effective from an MMA standpoint. I refuse to fight MMA. I don't want to fight MMA, I don't like training MMA, and I hate sparring MMA.

My question to you is: Is my coach right that my tendency to jump guard is bad for jits competition?

Keep in mind I live in Alaska, and we don't have jits competitions up here. And we're not likely to GET any jits competitions up here. I've competed twice, went 1-1 in a tournament (lost to one of my teammates in the second round), and then I beat another guy last year (these were all sub grappling no-gi competitions). My guard game won both my matches for me, and I lost via triangle (from his guard).

To say you don't need to work on your guard is irresponsible of any coach or instructor, so I'm not saying that in the least. What happens a lot is that people become over dependent on their guard game which leads them into trouble.

In MMA who has the advantage in the guard? The answer is neither. Bottom guy has the submission, the top guy has the strikes. Top guy has the easier job of keeping the pressure or disengaging. So, in my experience, the top person has the advantage.

DKJr
10/14/2009 1:35pm,
Hedge I would say that you're right and wrong. Not everyone will be able to do what Phil, Dustin Hazzlette, Shinya Aoki. If you've got the body type and natural tendencies to do that go for it. If you're built like Sean Sherk and have those tendencies I'm not seeing you having a super aggressive guard.

Hedgehogey
10/14/2009 2:26pm,
Not everyone will be able to do what Rampage, Randleman, Fedor do. If you've got the body type and natural tendencies to do that go for it. If you're built like Demian Maia and have those tendencies I'm not seeing you having a super aggressive takedown game.

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