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SlimJim
2/04/2004 11:45am,
Let me qualify my question first by saying I did a search and found nothing related to my question.

I have been to a couple of schools where there were students that were clearly mentally handicapped. I am of the opinion that this should not be.

Am I out-of-bounds on this one?

BTW, let me stress that the schools that I saw this in were clearly McDojos, IMHO.

Onecardshort
2/04/2004 12:01pm,
serious answer: How handicapped? Unable to tell right from wrong, total vegetable or just learning difficulties? First 2, no, last one, yes. Rape of the mentally handicapped is not uncommon unfortunately. Also, how do propose testing for mental competency to learn ma?

bullshido answer: going off several of the posters, they're in good company (look at strangler...) and being nuts shouldn't stop you training and STFWGKMIST (shut the, fook Wastrel's gonna kill me if I say that)

KenpoStan
2/04/2004 12:01pm,
Slim jim, I am having a hard time trying to understand why you think Mentally handicapped should not participate in martial Arts. Do you feel they will hurt themselves, hurt others or be hurt by others? I really see no problem if they are well supervised.

Nid
2/04/2004 12:21pm,
Originally posted by Onecardshort
serious answer: How handicapped?

MuayThaiChick
2/04/2004 1:35pm,
Handicapped as in mental or disabled?

matzahbal
2/04/2004 1:39pm,
SlimJim, it's really up to the instructor. Certain things have to be factored:

- How handicapped: There are different kinds and varying degrees of the kind. E.G. I've seen people with Cerabal Pausley (Spelling?) that function just like everybody else except a little slower, I knew one guy that rode his bike to karate class, and then there's my best friend's brother who's 20 something, but has the mind of a 2 year old.

- The size and attitude of the class: Do you have the resources it takes to cater to the special needs student and not take attention away from the rest of the class? Like assistant instructors or higher ranks that are use to and don't mind helping out.

- Does the instructor feel comfortable enough teaching somebody mentally handicapped: It is very energy draining because you even have to be more alert to their needs and be prepared for sudden mood swings and other occurances that could happen.

- Does the parent/caergiver just expect to drop them off and split: I've seen a few parents drop off their mentally challenged kids and then run out like it's a day care not expecting that once they leave their kid things it's free reign time.

Back in my kempo days I've seen instructors tell parents that they can't cater to ther child's needs, or recommend private training, or even just ride out the student knowing that a majority only do it as a confidence builder and quit after orange belt. Again, there are so many factors to weigh with suct a subject, there is no straight answer.

Freddy
2/04/2004 2:00pm,
Regardless if someone is handicap they should still know how to defend themselves. (To the best of their ability.)
Obviously crime can happen to anyone at anytime.

by-the-throat
2/04/2004 3:07pm,
I think it's simple. If they're mentally handicapped to the point where the government won't give them a gun (infantile moral development, antisocial personality disorder, "unable to tell right from wrong" type things), I wouldn't teach them martial arts. If not, it's the school's perogative on whether they want to teach them or not. Remember that it may be difficult and frustrating for them and steps should be taken to keep the other students from abusing them.

Bri Thai
2/04/2004 3:12pm,
Its a difficult issue. Its a balance between the rights and quality of life of the individual concerned - against the potential harm that may befall themselves or others.

There are too many variations to make a general call, and each case should be taken on its merits. I no longer teach, but would be very proud if I had enriched someones life by safely training them in the martial arts. If ther were people leaving the cliub in some kind of protest (htere are people like that about) I would be glad to see the back of them.

Great question by the way.

SlimJim
2/04/2004 3:41pm,
Thanks to everyone for the intelligent questions and replies.

I probably should have clearly stated what I experienced, so I shall:

I would consider someone with Cerebral Palsy as physically handicapped, so they would be excluded from this thread. The experience that I had was that the two individuals of whom I am speaking were mentally challenged to the degree that it would be a questionable act, to me at least, to teach them how to commit effective means of violence upon someone else.

KenpoStan, to answer your question, I am most concerned about what would happen outside of class in an uncontrolled environment.

Freddy, I understand that crime can happen to anyone at anytime. Isn't it appropriate to be concerned about how much an altercation will be escalated and if someone has the mental facilities to make the appropriate determination?

Thanks again everyone.

Omega Supreme
2/04/2004 4:03pm,
Originally posted by Onecardshort
serious answer: How handicapped? Unable to tell right from wrong, total vegetable or just learning difficulties? First 2, no, last one, yes. Rape of the mentally handicapped is not uncommon unfortunately. Also, how do propose testing for mental competency to learn ma?

bullshido answer: going off several of the posters, they're in good company (look at strangler...) and being nuts shouldn't stop you training and STFWGKMIST (shut the, fook Wastrel's gonna kill me if I say that)


Damn, somebody beat me to the answer.

Budd
2/04/2004 4:58pm,
I tend to believe in the inherently positive (not in the sense of morality, necessarily, but general quality of life) things that come from training in combatives. A person that's disabled should be allowed to experience, as much as possible, the positive qualities that come from training. The quick answer is that it's a case-by-case basis. In general, I would probably be willing to give someone the benefit of the doubt before deciding that they couldn't train.

Greese
2/04/2004 4:59pm,
I wouldn't, but I also wouldn't deal with anyone under the age of 16.
I would say that anyone with less than the maturity of a 16 year old would not be welcome...due to deadly techniques. :-)