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Jack_Daniels
10/04/2009 3:24pm,
All jokes like "when you hit all body is presha point" aside, I am wondering what exactly is meant by "pressure point." In national geographic's "fight science" show they chose the ninja because he had deadly pressure point strikes which basically looked like an inside gunting to the bicep


So what's up with all of this?

YouTube - Nerve Strikes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIGt3sd8loc)

Hidden Ronin
10/04/2009 3:39pm,
As I understand is, "pressure points" are where nerves, veins and artierys are close to the surface of the skin, with little or no muscle between them and the bone.

Jack_Daniels
10/04/2009 3:42pm,
As I understand is, "pressure points" are where nerves, veins and artierys are close to the surface of the skin, with little or no muscle between them and the bone.

so like in fma when they punch the inside of the bicep? yeah that DOES really hurt, but then I suppose this is not the "pressure poin" stuff like "dim mak?"

honest_truth
10/04/2009 3:42pm,
I guess whatever overloads the nerves with pain and shuts the body down ?

maybe the brain is one large nerve ?

YouTube - The Anatomy Of The One Punch Knockout (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cITQ5jRS_pA)

Yoj
10/04/2009 3:44pm,
There are some that are valid, Stomach 9 for example is very real and will drop you like a sack of **** if it's struck properly, but thats usually the problem, hitting them properly.

Jack_Daniels
10/04/2009 3:44pm,
I guess whatever overloads the nerves with pain and shuts the body down ?

maybe the brain is one large nerve ?



what about the liver? again this is pretty much the "when you hit all body is presha point" think which sifus love to say as some sort of joke/truth

honest_truth
10/04/2009 4:25pm,
what about the liver? again this is pretty much the "when you hit all body is presha point" think which sifus love to say as some sort of joke/truth
major organs are usually surrounded by nerves, to sense pain, thus make you aware of fucking up and forcing you to move out of the way.

Specifically why the liver shot hurts like a mother, here is something from ask the doc on mmajunkie

============================================

Q. Dr. Benjamin: I have a question for you that's driving me nuts. I've been fighting and sparring for a long time, and over the years I've had all kinds of injuries -- separated shoulders, deep bruises, stress fractures, you name it. However, in all that time I managed to avoid ever taking a serious gut/liver shot until recently. And I think I can easily say that this was one of the most painful things I've ever felt. It was like my entire brain shut down to anything but the pain. Once that subsided, it got me thinking: why does a well placed gut shot hurt so badly? What organ or collection of organs is it that sends a big, fat "ouch" racing up my spinal column? Granted, separating my shoulder was incredibly painful, but even that didn't compare to the gut shot in terms of sheer physical agony. (From William C. Jenkins)

A. Wow. Where are the easy questions? Please allow me to use my knowledge, training and experience to work through this one since my search of the medical literature did not find any good formal studies on this topic.

The"gut" and/or liver shot is often debilitating to say the least. But I believe that there may be two separate and distinct mechanisms related to this incapacitating phenomenon.

First the generic gut shot.

A gut shot is simply blunt force trauma to the abdomen that causes significant pain and difficulty breathing to the recipient. This mechanism has been widely described as related to spasm of the diaphragm. Here goes the dreaded anatomy and physiology lecture. (Sorry, blame it on Bill. He asked the question.)

The diaphragm is a large flat muscle that runs horizontally separates the thoracic cavity (chest, lung and heart) from the abdominal cavity (belly, organs and guts). It acts like a bellow that moves (contracts) up and down changing the pressure within the thoracic cavity in order to help the lungs fill and release air (respiration/breathing). When struck the diaphragm can, for lack of a better word, "cramp" (spasm) causing significant pain and difficulty breathing since it is not moving properly to help the lungs move air.

This has also been commonly described as the "solar plexus" (which, by the way, is not a medical term). I first learned about the solar plexus while watching "wrastlin" on TV on Saturday nights as a little kid in Houston. Man, whatever happened to Gorgeous George, the Von Erich's, Dick Murdoch, Jimmy "Superfly" Snuka and the Masked Mexican Assassin El Diablo talking about living room throw downs and putting your little brother in a sleeper hold!! Pardon me. I digress.

The second mechanism is blunt trauma to a solid organ or the dreaded "liver shot." Abdominal organs for the most part are covered with a thin but very tough fibrous membrane called a capsule. The capsule of solid organs (liver, spleen, kidneys, etc.) does not like to be stretched or deformed. The capsule of hollow organs (intestines, bladder, stomach, etc.) is specifically designed to accommodate stretching.

The liver is the largest solid organ in the abdomen and quite superficial, which leaves it poorly protected. It is on the upper right side (right upper quadrant) of the belly just above the belly button and extends above the lower border of the rib cage. So a large portion of the liver is left unprotected and relatively exposed to a well placed body shot.

When a solid organ takes a forceful blow and the overlying capsule is stretched, severe pain ensues. Once again, it is the body's attempt to protect itself from further harm or rupture of an organ. Reflexively (without thought), the combatants arms come down to cover the midsection and many times the injured person will fall to the ground and assume a modified fetal position to further protect. The fight is over or soon will be. The primitive instincts of the body have gone into override and are taking on a strictly defensive posture.

Legendary fighters have learned that when you hurt your opponents with a head shot, they will cover their face. Therefore, the next blows should be delivered to the now-exposed body (abdomen/belly). If these clean body shots do not finish the fight, the reflexive covering of the abdomen will lower the hands and leave your opponent's chin begging for more.

High quality MMA is really 95 percent mental. At the most elite levels, everyone has game. But the combatant who can outthink his or her opponent on that particular night has a tremendous advantage.

That's why the combatant with greater athleticism or a superior physique doesn't always win.

nnate
10/04/2009 5:51pm,
There are some that are valid, Stomach 9 for example is very real and will drop you like a sack of **** if it's struck properly, but thats usually the problem, hitting them properly.

I'm guessing this is in the stomach somewhere?

You know, I don't want to be a skeptical asshole, but I am a skeptic by nature. I'd really like to see how this works, if it does. I'm basically asking in the spirit of the scientific method.

Is there somewhere I could get information on this so I could experiment on my own? Google yields a bunch of conflicting stuff.

Yoj
10/04/2009 6:07pm,
Nope, chinese medicine/meridian stuff, it's the carotid baroreceptor in the neck, it manages blood pressure, you hit the carotid artery near it, it senses a blood pressure high, and causes a blood pressure drop, but because the high was artificial, the low is very low, and people pass out, or something like that. Medical folks use it in emergencies too. Of course, having the carotid artery temporarily occluded tends to make you feel funny anyway, we know this from chokes.

Pressure poiints are real, don't believe me? Hit your nuts with, well anything. thats a pressure point. The trouble is, most pressure points are awkward with a low level of response, pressure point schools argue that by striking several you can induce a physical reaction from the combination, this is usually based on chinese medicine theories, which isnt scientific, and even if they were, the chances of hitting 2 or more very specific points in the time frame required in real combat are very small.

nnate
10/04/2009 6:27pm,
Nope, chinese medicine/meridian stuff, it's the carotid baroreceptor in the neck, it manages blood pressure, you hit the carotid artery near it, it senses a blood pressure high, and causes a blood pressure drop, but because the high was artificial, the low is very low, and people pass out, or something like that. Medical folks use it in emergencies too. Of course, having the carotid artery temporarily occluded tends to make you feel funny anyway, we know this from chokes.

Pressure poiints are real, don't believe me? Hit your nuts with, well anything. thats a pressure point. The trouble is, most pressure points are awkward with a low level of response, pressure point schools argue that by striking several you can induce a physical reaction from the combination, this is usually based on chinese medicine theories, which isnt scientific, and even if they were, the chances of hitting 2 or more very specific points in the time frame required in real combat are very small.

I didn't say I didn't believe you, but I am skeptical of anything MA related on the internet until I test it. It's just a general rule I follow. It's nothing personal.

Yoj
10/04/2009 6:39pm,
I didn't say I didn't believe you, but I am skeptical of anything MA related on the internet until I test it. It's just a general rule I follow. It's nothing personal.

I know, I wasnt taking anything personal! I was just expanding on your question. For example, some people believe, that because it's all chinese medicine theory, it's more effective if done at the right time of the day, when chi is rising or something, the truth is, some parts of the body are more delicate than others. The neck, the nads, solar plexus, all have an effect, and are viable targets, the rest, not so much...

Hidden Ronin
10/04/2009 6:43pm,
I know a Karate instructor who calls pressure points by thier "Meridan" names. His favorite is "Gaul Bladder 32", which is situated on the the outside of the leg, middle of the thigh.
Its the place I aim for when Im kicking to the leg, I just don't call it "Gaul Bladder 32", Mainly because im not a pretentious twat.

permahudef
10/04/2009 6:44pm,
The second mechanism is blunt trauma to a solid organ or the dreaded "liver shot." Abdominal organs for the most part are covered with a thin but very tough fibrous membrane called a capsule. The capsule of solid organs (liver, spleen, kidneys, etc.) does not like to be stretched or deformed. The capsule of hollow organs (intestines, bladder, stomach, etc.) is specifically designed to accommodate stretching. And here I assumed it was because the liver is an endocrine center and it messed you up with an endocrine response as well as being highly sensitive (by nerves).

As for the original post, a "nerve strike" would be a strike to a nerve (bundle of axons). Nerves bring sensory information to the central nervous system or send motor (or other) signals from the CNS to the rest of the body. It seems reasonable that a strike to a nerve would interfere with the signals.

Once a "nerve" is in the central nervous system, it is called a tract.

nnate
10/04/2009 8:02pm,
I know, I wasnt taking anything personal! I was just expanding on your question. For example, some people believe, that because it's all chinese medicine theory, it's more effective if done at the right time of the day, when chi is rising or something, the truth is, some parts of the body are more delicate than others. The neck, the nads, solar plexus, all have an effect, and are viable targets, the rest, not so much...

I didn't think you took it the wrong way, but I did want to make it clear where I was coming from.

Anyway, I appreciate it that you took the time to explain.

Conde Koma
10/04/2009 10:25pm,
Pressure points exist, but as have been mentioned, hitting more than one at a time can be difficult at best. The outside of the thigh, just above and behind the knee, is a common one that Thai boxers use.

Another thing! Not all pressure points have to be struck (as in impact).
YouTube - Catch Wrestling Shin Lock Submissions (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVhJRHQDsyE)

Sit cross-legged, take your elbow, put it just behind the shin bone, where it meets your calf, and drive it downward. SUCKS. Also, think of pain-compliance points that you can drive your knuckles/fingers into. An old Judo coach said if someone turtled against me, I should look for a choke by driving my knuckle into the back of the jaw, just below the ear. SUCKS. I don't know how many taps you'll get with these (especially against tough guys with high pain tolerance), but they do work.

SaintHamish
10/05/2009 12:29am,
http://www.armystudyguide.com/content/moxiepix/b1_611.gif