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WingChun Lawyer
2/02/2004 7:12am,
So, I have a stupid cousin who does krav maga.

He went to a knife defense krav maga seminar, did some drills, and told me that he is now absolutely safe against knife attacks - he actually told me he will CERTAINLY react against a robber armed only with a knife, as his krav maga instructor has "dismistified (esp.) the knife myth" (please pay attention to CERTAINLY, above).

I asked the poor idiot what did he mean by that, and he said that it is actually very hard to do serious damage, much less kill, armed only with a knife. Because:

(a) A knife must have at least 13 centimeters of blade length to actually present some danger, as shorter knifes simply canīt reach important arteries or veins, and

(b) Even a stab to the stomach isnīt likely to kill you, and even the throat is not really such a vulnerable target, as you have to cut the arteries (or veins, whatever) on both sides of the neck to actually bleed someone to death.

(c) He wasnīt actually told that reacting in an armed robbery situation (when the thug has a knife) is simply not a safe course of action, quite the opposite.

Now, I would like to point out that I only watched one krav maga class, and I donīt really have an opinion, good or bad, about it. However, the statements above do worry me, as (in light of my admittedly limited knowledge) knives are really fucking dangerous instruments, and my cousin has apparently been sold a dangerous lie.

So, I would like to ask all kravers here if the above statements represent krav magaīs official policy regarding knife attacks. I would like to believe they donīt, but my cousin did say he was taught those facts in a very official krav maga seminar.


Thanks.

DANINJA
2/02/2004 7:21am,
best unarmed defence against a knife is the art of runnning!!!!!!!

blankslate
2/02/2004 7:39am,
I must learn this krav maga. I take it your cousin is a lawyer as well.



The above sounds far too confident in dealing with knives.

deus ex machina
2/02/2004 7:45am,
One inch is enough.

WingChun Lawyer
2/02/2004 7:47am,
Not a lawyer, he is studying to be a veterinary.


Still, he is an imbecile to believe that - IF he was actually told that, as I hope he was not. Which is why I would like to know the opinion of the kravers here.

I actually posted the same question (in a slightly more polite form) in the official krav maga forum, if you would like to know what they have to say:

http://www.kravmaga.com/forum/discussion.cgi?forum=1&discussion=3070

BeLikeWater
2/02/2004 8:02am,
ask him how many inches is needed to stab him in the eyeballs

Beavis
2/02/2004 8:04am,
Not being a doctor or anatomist, I'm not commenting from a particularly educated standpoint.

I would think, however, than an inch would be more than sufficient. Arteries in the wrist are vulnerable, as is the windpipe and the inside of the thigh.

Even if they couldn't kill you, a stab in the eye, the groin, etc could lead to lasting disfigurement and no little pain.

It sounds like the instructor is propagating extremely dangerous advice.

P

Beavis
2/02/2004 8:09am,
Just to add - it may be true to say that a small knife in the hands of an untrained mugger is not necessarily as much of a threat as the public may consider it to be.

However, that is not the same thing as the arguments presented above, which seem to suggest that a small knife is NEVER particularly dangerous.

I really don't see how the statements presented above can be considered reasonable, and it seems deceitful, misleading and irresponsible.

Ippatsu182
2/02/2004 8:16am,
I hope your cousin never has to defend against a real knife attack in the future. I think the biggest danger in learning defenses against weapons is that it gives many people a false sense of confidence. I mean, you never know if the person you're defending against knows how to use their weapon. You may have 5 years in Krav Maga or some other martial art, but they could have 5 years in knife fighting and THEY have the weapon.

WingChun Lawyer
2/02/2004 8:26am,
Originally posted by Beavis
Just to add - it may be true to say that a small knife in the hands of an untrained mugger is not necessarily as much of a threat as the public may consider it to be.

However, that is not the same thing as the arguments presented above, which seem to suggest that a small knife is NEVER particularly dangerous.

I really don't see how the statements presented above can be considered reasonable, and it seems deceitful, misleading and irresponsible.

My thoughts exactly. Even if an untrained attacker can have problems trying to kill you with a knife, there is a very real danger of permanent damage, and it seems the instructor was convincing the students that that kind of situation is really no big deal.

strats36
2/02/2004 8:52am,
Originally posted by WingChun Lawyer
(b) Even a stab to the stomach isnīt likely to kill you, and even the throat is not really such a vulnerable target, as you have to cut the arteries (or veins, whatever) on both sides of the neck to actually bleed someone to death.



Seriously, I need to get some of what this guy is smoking! Has this guy ever studied basic anatomy? You cut a main artery OR a vein in your neck and you're done unless you get medical attention immediately! If you cut both, then you just have a little less time to live.

You should take a magic marker some time and write all over his neck and wrists with it to show him how good his knife defense is.

Student
2/02/2004 9:00am,
Ippatsu182 quote --> 'I think the biggest danger in learning defenses against weapons is that it gives many people a false sense of confidence. '


I agree if the training is not realistic - but when you train realisitcally - meaning the person with the training blade is really trying to cut you, not to just make you look and feel good - you learn pretty damn quick that you never want to be in a knife fight - no matter how long you have been training.

At least if you train realistically you will have an increased chance of walking away with your life if you ever HAVE to defend yourself - you are still at a huge disadvantage.

I however feel that the people who train with no realistic attacks and no resistance are worse off than someone who has never trained. People with no training tend to just try and control the knife. When I work with someone who is used to doing 'Fancy' techniques against a non resisting opponent - and I attack them aggresively for the first time - they get nailed about 10 to 20 times in a row (in a few seconds) and then finally give up on what they were trying to do and then just try to control the knife.

garbanzo
2/02/2004 9:36am,
I've never studied KM, but I have checked out their forum (www.kravmaga.com).

The universal conclusion on that forum is that knives are dangerous.

I have seen no evidence of the over-confidence which you describe above from the participants at that site.

WingChun Lawyer
2/02/2004 9:46am,
Garbanzo, I also checked out their forum and I didnīt find anything like that in terms of over-confidence regarding knives.

Which I why I posted a new thread there exactly like this one, asking for an explanation.

I mean, my cousin is an imbecile, but it seems he was actually told those things. And this is worrying: maybe they can help me find out something about KM instruction here in Brazil, who knows.

Of course, maybe my cousin understood it all wrong, in which case I can rub the official KM answer over his stupid face.

JKing
2/02/2004 10:01am,
I've taken Krav off and on, and no... that isn't the policy of Krav Maga training. Sounds like some teacher just trying to draw more students in by giving them a false sense of invunerability

X_plosion
2/02/2004 10:15am,
A removable razor blade is relatively short, but it can slice arteries in the neck and wrist very quickly. One clean slash and it's a big problem. How much more if it's a sharp knife that's being used.