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honest_truth
9/03/2009 9:28pm,
Search-Fu has failed me because searching for Mantis leads to "mr.mantis" being bolded over and over.

I currently train in MT, and although i love my school, its a bit heavy on my pockets given how much i can train since college is starting again, so through PM'ng 1 of the members on bullshido (who isnt frequent) i got info on a Sanshou school close by which i was invited to try on the 10th of Sept.

However in addition to having sanshou they also teach mantis kung-fu, what exactly is mantis kung fu ?, can it be practiced with reasonable contact and be efficient ?

youtube showed me a LARPfest of wrist strikes.
YouTube - Basic Techniques for Northern Praying Mantis Kung Fu : Striking With a Mantis Claw: Northern Mantis Kung Fu Techniques (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zaKE_ZQijc)

my MT and boxing couches would cringe from seeing this.

joechina
9/03/2009 9:44pm,
what style of mantis boxing is it?

Petter
9/03/2009 10:11pm,
That looks rather pointless. How the hell is it supposed to be faster than, say, a simple straight left?

honest_truth
9/03/2009 11:23pm,
what style of mantis boxing is it?
there is more styles in the mantis style, oh wow
no idea, its just written mantis style in the e-mail he sent me.

okay, lets try it another way, are there mantis style kung fu that is practiced with reasonable contact and is efficient ?
anything i have to watch out for or ask ?


That looks rather pointless. How the hell is it supposed to be faster than, say, a simple straight left?
I know, and this worries me, its not possible to spar with wrist strikes, WTF

joechina
9/04/2009 12:01am,
there is more styles in the mantis style, oh wow
no idea, its just written mantis style in the e-mail he sent me.

okay, lets try it another way, are there mantis style kung fu that is practiced with reasonable contact and is efficient ?
anything i have to watch out for or ask ?


I know, and this worries me, its not possible to spar with wrist strikes, WTF

you can check if they have a professional fight record in kickboxing or sanshou, or even in MMA

also ask to see if you can try the class for a week or so, so you can get a feel of what they are doing, so you can see if there is reasonable contact in practice

the style of Mantis I practiced, had a lot of throws and takedowns, which were set up by strikes - it is efficient in teaching you really fast how to throw and take people to the ground, in a relatively short period - so that is one sign to see if it is efficient.

Mantis teaches a lot of conditioning drills for hand sensitivity, and some of their tactics are similar to western boxing - say hit low, move in and hit high, etc. The system has a lot of thought as they prepare you for many scenarios, say after you throw a jab, if he ducks, you grab him by the back of the head, and one of their arms, knee him and throw him - just an example. I would say a mantis fighter is very unpredictable, & herky jerky, and a simple strike could be disguised as a setup, for say another strike or throw or lock.

standing now though, I am not quite sure what style of mantis and what there cirriculumn may be...I am basing it off of what I learned in Praying Mantis

I am not sure how to post youtube videos, but here is one
YouTube - Praying Mantis Kung Fu - Part 2 of 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlInJFHw5mQ&feature=related)

and here is a scene from an old school kung fu flick
YouTube - Southern Praying Mantis Kung Fu - Chow Gar (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YhEwJq-EdI)

Petter
9/04/2009 12:10am,
That video was full of dead drills, lots of slapping, and some very ferocious murders of innocent boards. I wonder if there’s any footage of mantis in use in actual alive sparring or fighting...?

joechina
9/04/2009 12:24am,
That video was full of dead drills, lots of slapping, and some very ferocious murders of innocent boards. I wonder if there’s any footage of mantis in use in actual alive sparring or fighting...?

if you are really that interested,
why not simply approach a credible mantis school,
or check out a sanshou tournament with a mantis school fighting

you prolly are not gonna find good footage,
so check out some real live fights

I found those videos off of google, and the kung fu flick, I just like that movie:director:

Crushing Step
9/04/2009 6:31am,
OK, the first video was northern mantis, but that guy is a douchebag.

The second two videos were southern mantis, I won't comment there.

Here are a few examples of very decent northern mantis. Yes, there is some kung fooey stuff in the system, and most of what exists on youtube is pretty shitty. You have to understand in CMA this is how CONCEPTS were handed down. You are NOT expected to fight like you are imitating the animal in DA STREET, but instead use the concepts behind the forms. You'll see.

First is Michael Dasargo's school in San Diego. He he and his students illustrate some parallels between the boxing sets and applications. The apps are all on compliant partners.

YouTube - Mantis Boxing Demonstration (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1fZqtqyVUg)


A seminar clip with Brendan Tunks, you still see the mantis form in his compliant applications, but they start to deviate from being exact copies of the form movement.

YouTube - Tanglangmen seminar in Urle (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nik8qHL_PEE)


Finally is Illya Profitalov who teaches in CT, who is using movements from a northern mantis form in application (still with a compliant partner). At this point you should still see the concepts of northern mantis (I do anyway), but it is no longer direct form imitation.

YouTube - Ilya Profatilov teaching Mantis Boxing Seminar in Moscow (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OnrzrvMlUY)

Keej613
9/04/2009 10:17am,
You have to understand in CMA this is how CONCEPTS were handed down. You are NOT expected to fight like you are imitating the animal in DA STREET, but instead use the concepts behind the forms. You'll see.

I'm a student at the very school in question and that is their exact philosophy.

On the traditional side, they teach North Praying Mantis as well as Baji and other lesser-know styles. They occasionally dabble in Shuai Chiao / Shuai Jiao too every now and then but that's mostly when Shuai Chiao experts come for a visit.

On the combat sports side of things they teach kickboxing ("international style" as I've heard it called before AKA K-1 style), Sanshou and grappling / submissions.

No one that I know of has competed at the pro level yet (though many schools and organizations have often tried to headhunt the main Sanshou instructor) but lots of students have participated in local, provincial, national and international (mostly in the US) kung-fu, sanshou and kickboxing tournaments and one-offs. And many of the current Sanshou students will be trying out for the provincial / national Sanshou team next year.

http://wutancanada.com/main.html

(FYI: The schedule is a bit misleading. Anywhere that says "kickboxing" actually means "kickboxing for the noobs, sparring and Sanshou for the advanced students")

(Also FYI, the full-contact videos thread in here has videos of what the styles this school teaches look like in real life.)

Crushing Step
9/04/2009 2:44pm,
I'm a student at the very school in question and that is their exact philosophy.

Well thanks for agreeing with me, though I didn't see how your school was in question? Is it another thread?

BTW, I just saw this. In the first form segment (which is bung bo or "crushing step" lol) the guy does a side kick?!?!?

I've seen dozens of styles of mantis, and I have never seen a side kick in this form. Is this guy affiliated with you, and is this what you guys teach?

YouTube - Wu tan Canada Chinese Martial Arts (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXhxMRd23X0)

honest_truth
9/04/2009 3:50pm,
Well thanks for agreeing with me, though I didn't see how your school was in question? Is it another thread?

I was discussing sanshou with keej a couple of months ago through PM's, and now decided to check out his school, thats how he knew what i was talking about.

Crushing Step
9/04/2009 5:50pm,
Thanks Honest Truth. And while we're speaking the truth here, I really hope the guy in the first 50 seconds of the Wu Tan video I posted is not who you're talking to, because that buffoon is NOT a good representation of what our style is all about.

Whereabouts in Canada are you?

honest_truth
9/04/2009 6:24pm,
Thanks Honest Truth. And while we're speaking the truth here, I really hope the guy in the first 50 seconds of the Wu Tan video I posted is not who you're talking to, because that buffoon is NOT a good representation of what our style is all about.

Whereabouts in Canada are you?
i rep 613 (ottawa)
from watching that guys videos, his kickboxing was horrible as well, he arm punches and kicks with no hip rotation, that looked more like a street fighter slug fest.

this isnt sanshou as you guys teach it, right keej ?

Keej613
9/07/2009 4:27pm,
I've never seen any of those guys from the video . . . and that's definitely not our gym in the video, either. They must be from another school. I've been told there's one in Montreal. I train at the one in Ottawa.

I guess the best I can tell you is to simply come and check it out. As far as I know, our school doesn't have any videos online and those forms and that "style" of Sanshou aren't anything I've seen at any of our classes.

*shrugs*

honest_truth
9/07/2009 7:05pm,
I've never seen any of those guys from the video . . . and that's definitely not our gym in the video, either. They must be from another school. I've been told there's one in Montreal. I train at the one in Ottawa.

I guess the best I can tell you is to simply come and check it out. As far as I know, our school doesn't have any videos online and those forms and that "style" of Sanshou aren't anything I've seen at any of our classes.

*shrugs*
3 more days :icon_chee
reply to my PM dammit, i have never been to algonquin, help a bullshidoka out.

Also, this video is awesome:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4441671181378971108#

Crushing Step
9/07/2009 7:14pm,
I've never seen any of those guys from the video . . . and that's definitely not our gym in the video, either. They must be from another school. I've been told there's one in Montreal. I train at the one in Ottawa.

I guess the best I can tell you is to simply come and check it out. As far as I know, our school doesn't have any videos online and those forms and that "style" of Sanshou aren't anything I've seen at any of our classes.

*shrugs*

Mind if I pose two questions?

1 - Does your style as a whole teach bung bo with a side kick like in this video?

2 - Besides not seeing this guy before, does he represent your style well?