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Tyrsmann
8/21/2009 8:59pm,
Hey just curious. Do CMAs teach blows with the false edge or back edge with the Jian?

JP
8/21/2009 10:04pm,
Hey just curious. Do CMAs teach blows with the false edge or back edge with the Jian?

Jian:

http://dana.ucc.nau.edu/~msb46/taiji-2.jpg


Dao:

http://www.oriental-weaponry.co.uk/acatalog/HW1011-ox-tail-dao.jpg

Tyrsmann
8/21/2009 10:54pm,
Hey just curious. Do CMAs teach blows with the false edge or back edge with the Jian?


Maybe I need to explain a little. In Italian longsword the sword we use is sharp on both sides the edge and resembles the blade of the Jian in that it's straight and has sharps edge on both sides. The term "false edge" is used for the edge that is facing backward when holding the sword.

I'm just curious if you CMA folks use the the backwards facing edge to strike in anyway.

Permalost
8/22/2009 1:03am,
Yes. The false edge is used to make backhand cuts or to do a high backhand parry against a thrust and follow up with a high forehand true edge cut. There's also a vertical snapping attack called tiu where the hand is snapped down as the tip is snapped up to attack the underside of the opponent's weapon arm.

Lindz
8/22/2009 3:17am,
Jian:

http://dana.ucc.nau.edu/%7Emsb46/taiji-2.jpg


Dao:

http://www.oriental-weaponry.co.uk/acatalog/HW1011-ox-tail-dao.jpg

Nan dao
http://www.gwangung.co.uk/pics/products/BSND1.JPG

Tyrsmann
8/22/2009 4:37am,
Now that I think about it isn't there a "two-handed jian" (don't know much chinese sword terminology) in some CMAs?

Tyrsmann
8/22/2009 4:38am,
Yes. The false edge is used to make backhand cuts or to do a high backhand parry against a thrust and follow up with a high forehand true edge cut. There's also a vertical snapping attack called tiu where the hand is snapped down as the tip is snapped up to attack the underside of the opponent's weapon arm.

thank you

meataxe
8/22/2009 7:45am,
Now that I think about it isn't there a "two-handed jian" (don't know much chinese sword terminology) in some CMAs?

Yes, there is... 双手剑- literally, double-handed jian.

DerAuslander
8/22/2009 5:56pm,
Ew. Simplified.

JP
8/22/2009 6:37pm,
Wow.

So I stand corrected. See my main experience with bladed weapons is a very small amount with chinese weapons and then always the single edged curving variety. My other experience with edged weapons is primarily knives and with knives the false edge is always dull.

I didn't realize the edge of a double-edged sword that was facing the user was referred to as a false edge. Does that mean it isn't sharpened?

In any case, I didn't intend to be a wise-ass, just to clarify.

meataxe
8/22/2009 6:50pm,
Ew. Simplified.

I hear you... My PC is set up that way. Spent too much time in PRC although the first characters I learned were traditional.

For you traditional cats: 雙手劍

Much more appealing, especially "jian", IMHO.

Permalost
8/24/2009 1:56am,
Wow.

So I stand corrected. See my main experience with bladed weapons is a very small amount with chinese weapons and then always the single edged curving variety. My other experience with edged weapons is primarily knives and with knives the false edge is always dull.

I didn't realize the edge of a double-edged sword that was facing the user was referred to as a false edge. Does that mean it isn't sharpened?

In any case, I didn't intend to be a wise-ass, just to clarify.

It is sharpened on a double edge sword, but sometimes one is sharper than the other. For example, a double edged machete might have one edge sharper than the other for finer work and a more dull edge for chopping harder materials, or how the Fairbairn combat knife has a hole in one side of the blade so you know which one is sharp for combat and which one you can dull with utility use. As general terminology goes, I call the back a false edge if it's an edge or the spine if it doesn't have an edge (or a swedge if it's just a shortened sharp edge near the tip).

JP
8/24/2009 4:04pm,
It is sharpened on a double edge sword, but sometimes one is sharper than the other. For example, a double edged machete might have one edge sharper than the other for finer work and a more dull edge for chopping harder materials, or how the Fairbairn combat knife has a hole in one side of the blade so you know which one is sharp for combat and which one you can dull with utility use. As general terminology goes, I call the back a false edge if it's an edge or the spine if it doesn't have an edge (or a swedge if it's just a shortened sharp edge near the tip).

Very educational. Thank you.