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TxSanshou
4/22/2009 8:26am,
Hello everyone I currently study Olympic TKD at elite tae kwon do under master Paris Amani he is supposed to be the best tae kwon do coach in the U.S I've been at elite for about 7 months and I don't think the martial art is for me (Tae kwon do that is) and think I would be more comfortable in a more complete martial art like san shou. One of the main reasons I think san shou would be a better art for me is when I am sparring in my dojo I seem to be fighting back instincts to use techniques that I would naturally do in a fight or sparring match because these techniques are not allowed under TKD rules such as leg checking when my opponent kicks me, or catching his kick and sweeping him or throwing him, punching my opponent in the face, leg kicking the list goes on and on. Then I noticed that these things were allowed in san shou but what really convinced me was when I started switching my kicking style from Olympic TKD style to a half assed san shou style which was the best I could do since I did not have an instructor to teach me to do it properly and snapped my 250lb everlast standing bag in half with one kick when I could barely move it with a TKD style kick that I have been training for almost two years now. When I told my coach this he told me that top ranked tae kwon do players kick harder than any other martial artists when they kick properly I responded with " If thats true then why don't more mma fighters train in Olympic tkd for their kicking technique" he then changed the subject and said that one of his fighters like steven lopez two time olympic tkd gold medalist would destroy any mma fighter under mma rules.

I know there are a lot of pro and amateur fighters on this site any information on how skilled any tae kwon do players you have fought in your career's would be appreciated thanks and God bless.

Carlos13th
4/22/2009 8:48am,
I started switching my kicking style from Olympic TKD style to a half assed san shou style which was the best I could do since I did not have an instructor to teach me to do it properly and snapped my 250lb everlast standing bag in half with one kick when I could barely move it with a TKD style kick that I have been training for almost two years now. .

Did you just claim to snap your puncbag with one kick? LOL

Matt Phillips
4/22/2009 8:50am,
You do realize that Cung comes from a TKD background, right?

TxSanshou
4/22/2009 8:59am,
Did you just claim to snap your puncbag with one kick? LOL

yes I did believe me or don't I'm not one to lie

TxSanshou
4/22/2009 9:00am,
You do realize that Cung comes from a TKD background, right?

really I did not know that is he from a olympic background or a traditional background?

omoplatypus
4/22/2009 9:10am,
tae kwon do can have absolutly devistating kicks. the problem is that the art has been so tainted with bullshit, that nobody will take it seriously anymore, unless you are training international/olympic levels. also, in about 4 or 5 years, i suspect we will have shitloads of TKD black belt MMA fighters. they may have been 11 when they got their BB, but you know.....

but even then, why go to tae kwon do to help your kicks when the kicks you will use the most are also utilized in other arts that have a more complete punching game and a less restrictive rule set?

1point2
4/22/2009 9:14am,
Did you just claim to snap your puncbag with one kick? LOL

It's been done. Not saying he did it--but it's reasonable.

Carlos13th
4/22/2009 9:19am,
I find it highly unlikley he snaped throuhg a punchbag with one kick using as he put it "A half arsed san shou kick"

strikistanian
4/22/2009 9:28am,
Could've been a worn out or low quality bag.

But my question for OP is, if you don't even train San Shou, why is it in your name?

Vorpal
4/22/2009 9:31am,
I'm thinking that he's referring to a standing bag with the sand or water filled bases (hence the 250lbs).



Some video of this awesome kicking technique appearing forthwith would be appreciated.

omoplatypus
4/22/2009 9:32am,
Could've been a worn out or low quality bag.

But my question for OP is, if you don't even train San Shou, why is it in your name?

wondering that myself

Ming Loyalist
4/22/2009 9:32am,
txsanshou -

what exactly do you mean when you say "snapped in half"?

it bent over at the impact point and the cover tore and the insides came out.
it didn't bend at impact, but the cover tore where you kicked it.
it folded slightly upon impact and returned to normal after.

also how tall are you and how much do you weigh? i coach sanda and even our 250lb + strong as an ox guys don't damage the bags in my school (we don't use shitty bags though.)

Matt Phillips
4/22/2009 9:40am,
Please don't ask him to post his kick video again(!) We've been through this before. TxS, you have (had) a shitty wave master type thing. They break.

In his defense: He was asked to change his style field from SS to TKD and he did. IIRC Noobs can't change their usernames. His post seemed to be making the point that he couldn't break his WaveThingie with the TKD round kick, but he could with an untutored SS round kick (in the same family as KK and MT).

I don't know the specifics of Cung's TKD training, but he did study it, and it shows. He also studied VVD which is similar. All of Cung's SS specific moves come from training with the national team and training with Rudi Ott from the Boston San Shou team. The bulk of his game is Greco + TKD + VVD.

u1ysses
4/22/2009 9:43am,
Is there a Sanshou/Sanda school in your area? I would take it if there was one in mine. The best I could do was to learn a bunch second-hand from people at a campus martial arts group. This Olympic TKD guy from the Ukraine started training with us and was throwing all these impressive kicks, and all the relative newbies to Sanshou were like "Oh ****, this guy's going to mop the floor with us." I already had my opinions about TKD, so I kept quiet, and the guy seemed pretty athletic, so I figured I'd give him the benefit of the doubt.

The first time he joined us for sparring, he went up against a pretty built guy who had been doing Sanshou for just a couple of months, and whose background before then consisted of "Boxing with friends to end arguments." To most of the people here what happened probably isn't a surprise -- the TKD got a nice kick in now and then, but never to the head. The Sanshou newbie just followed him around aggressively, the TKD guy had trouble keeping his hands up, and when the Sanshou newb charged in with a series of simple jabs and crosses, the TKD guy would panic and sort of turn/curl up into this standing fetal position thing cradling his head, and we'd have to temporarily stop the fight and tell him to stop doing that, which would work for about a minute or so then he'd be back to his standing fetal. Eventually the Sanshou newb just picked him up and gave him this really sloppy graeco-roman looking toss every time he did that.

While my kicking technique was nowhere near as solid as the TKD guy's, I was able to keep a lot better composure during the sparring matches just from the sense of distance and timing and having an eye for weight shifts / the very start of a motion just from a saber fencing background. Fencing itself isn't really anywhere near a simulation of a real sword fight, but at least the "right of way" part of the game and the fact that if anyone gets near you when you're not on your guard means you're toast gave me some sense of what to do when squaring off with someone.

This is sort of a side point, though. If there's Sanda/Sanshou take it - and you're lucky. If there isn't, cross-train Muay Thai or Savate or Kyokushin or something. What's the point of doing TKD? As pointed out numerous other times at this forum, sure -- you'll learn some decent kicking technique, but you'll learn that anywhere else people will teach you a kickboxing technique with real aliveness.

Dammit I wish there was good Sanda here or where I'm moving... I just want to kick and throw people...

TxSanshou
4/22/2009 9:49am,
txsanshou -

what exactly do you mean when you say "snapped in half"?

it bent over at the impact point and the cover tore and the insides came out.
it didn't bend at impact, but the cover tore where you kicked it.
it folded slightly upon impact and returned to normal after.

also how tall are you and how much do you weigh? i coach sanda and even our 250lb + strong as an ox guys don't damage the bags in my school (we don't use shitty bags though.)

when I kicked it the bag bent in and I heard a loud pop when I took the cover off the plastic core that you put the cover over was broken in half and fell off its really not an amazing feat or anything I'm sure most people with a decent kick could do it I was just saying thats something I never dreamed of doing with a tkd kick

Matt Phillips
4/22/2009 10:00am,
TxS, when do you start at your friend's gym?