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Joana
4/15/2009 9:05am,
Iíve been following this tread for some time ago and, decided now to register in bullshido (which I didnít knew about) to give my opinion and contribution to this discussion.

Iím a judo and ju jitsu student in Portugal, and some of you may not know but in Portuguese Martial Arts Helder Nunes, is a national anthem in what concerns to bullshit and fraud. Heís not the only one unfortunately but I think is a problem that is transnational. Heís being immortalized right know in a blog that is revealing many stories of his past, that I didnít knew.

Helder Nunes in Portugal have practically no recognition. At least from those who matter that is his pears. The only recognition he gets is from some apostles that he graded and who think that a white and red belt on his belly means something.

When I started in traditional ju jitsu, I started with Helder Nunes, because I didnít know anything about jj. Iíve trained there for 2 months. Enough time to realize the kind of bullshit it tells, that make no sense with reality. He claims that he is the responsible for introducing jujitsu in Portugal. Jujitsu in Portugal exists for more than 50 years. The least I can say about this is that is an insult to the real masters of the past (which are already dead, and cannot talk) coming from the mouth of a kid.

Helder Nunes never talks of his past as a student. He always refer to the qualities of the senseiís which he trains actually, and the organization he his part of. Never talks about his ďfathersĒ. Who were the ones that make him get were he is? Morris? Were did he trained and for how many years to became 1st Dan?

What I meant to say, especially for those from Canada, which are having the great privilege of attending to Helder Nunes seminars, is that the grades he is giving to you mean ZERO. Are shits in Portugal, and are **** in Canada. Iíve once assisted to a demonstration of him and the other senseiís just in respect to Budo, didnít laugh of him. Thatís the reason he is always travelling, because outside Portugal people didnít know him.

Train with a real sensei. One that has several years of practice. That has no fear of telling to a white belt, were he started, with who, whenÖNot with a Marketing Sensei.

Manlobeiro, is making a right job, in exposing this fraud. And he deserves that his tread is back to the fraud category instead o ymas. Or do you expect a written confession of Helder Nunes himself??

For the true and justice in Martial Arts.

Honour to the real Senseis, Pity on Helder Nunes



Regards

MrJ
4/15/2009 11:06am,
Well, not be a pain, but i presented what was requested from me.
KellyD and Stungun did a counter campaign (my oppinion) and this thread was put in YMAS, wich it seems to be not as 'serious' as it was before.
I have contacted via PM It Is a Fake, the Mod, i got no answer.

It seems to me unfair, i got the trouble to confirm my accusations, contacting the persons and organizations involved.

Now, not a word about this subject.
At least a Mod should put it where it was initially.

To your consideration
Cheers

It ended up in YMAS because the OP didn't post his evidence, despite repeated requests to do so and the mods' explanation of the rules, until much later.

Just because people do not accept your assertations without proof, or dare to disagree with you it does not mean that there is a counter campaign. That is silly.

I, for one, would be pleased if the mods did decide to put this thread (or a portion therof) back into MABS. Perhaps if other contributions to this thread provided new information or corroborated your claims they would have a reason to consider it. It would be better than reading pages of posts stating that evidence exists, everybody go out and find it yourself.

It is Fake
4/15/2009 12:13pm,
It would be better than reading pages of posts stating that evidence exists, everybody go out and find it yourself....and MrJ wins the prize.

Accusations without proof are what? Accusations. MABS is not for accusations. End of story.

Yes, I didn't respond because, I wanted to see your reaction. You calm down and quit complaining it will go back.

It took you a week to get the emails up. It took me a week to respond.

Irony.

manlobeiro
4/15/2009 12:16pm,
It ended up in YMAS because the OP didn't post his evidence, despite repeated requests to do so and the mods' explanation of the rules, until much later.

Just because people do not accept your assertations without proof, or dare to disagree with you it does not mean that there is a counter campaign. That is silly.

I, for one, would be pleased if the mods did decide to put this thread (or a portion therof) back into MABS. Perhaps if other contributions to this thread provided new information or corroborated your claims they would have a reason to consider it. It would be better than reading pages of posts stating that evidence exists, everybody go out and find it yourself.

The evidence was not put in the begining because it involves organizations and people. I had to contact Sensei Menau, Sensei Alain and the portuguese Jujutsu Federation. I have put the answer in this thread, just like i received it.
Any person can contact the same people and organizations. I cannot, because they already answered me. Again, feel free to confirm.
As it was mentioned before, you can disagree with me at your will.
I just said, that you must prove why you disagree, and a subjective evidence like an opinion does not count.
This thread was moved and i was asked to present evidence, wich i did.
Three emails from different organizations/people.

(it took a week because the answer of the person/organization did not depended of me)

Two people that have registered in March and April have contributed to this present state, and they no longer say anything.
My 'agressive' stand, is not agressive at all, its just a consequence of several coordinated attempts to blur this evidence.

I have been threatened (by email), and ridicularized, because i decided to make all this public and wide known.
Mr. Nunes and his friends through internet and in the real world, have made and are making their moves so that his image comes out clean, and i look like a jealous one.
(in portuguese foruns for example http://combatportugal.proboards.com/index.cgi , unfourtunately is in portuguese)

Thats why sometimes i come a bit rough, i am tired of roaming alone.
I apologize for that, and maintain what i say, he is a fraud.

I have presented what was requested, its up to the readers and Mods to decide if its worth to move it or not to MABS, as someone wrote before, what else should i do, get a written confession?

Cheers

It is Fake
4/15/2009 12:36pm,
The evidence was not put in the begining because it involves organizations and people. I had to contact Sensei Menau, Sensei Alain and the portuguese Jujutsu Federation. I have put the answer in this thread, just like i received it.
Any person can contact the same people and organizations. I cannot, because they already answered me. Again, feel free to confirm.
As it was mentioned before, you can disagree with me at your will.
I just said, that you must prove why you disagree, and a subjective evidence like an opinion does not count.
This thread was moved and i was asked to present evidence, wich i did.
Three emails from different organizations/people.

Let's make sure you understand. You complained, yelled, made accusations against my character, and you are now making demands.

Facts are facts.

I asked you for proof, explained my position, and you attacke my character. You then refused to provide the evidence, I then moved the thread. A week later, you finally did.

In the basic terms, I slapped your wrist and you complied. Now, you are demanding instant satisfaction.

I waited on purpose.

Now, you learned another lesson treat others how you want to be treated. This thread would have never been moved IF YOU PROVIDED THE EMAILS BACK IN FEBRUARY.

I would have never came onto the thread because, you had proof. Other members, who speak Portuguese, would have helped and you wouldn't be going it as you say "alone."

Yet, when you balk, for almost three months, people think you are lying. Yes, sorry, that is the way it goes.





Two people that have registered in March and April have contributed to this present state, and they no longer say anything.
My 'agressive' stand, is not agressive at all, its just a consequence of several coordinated attempts to blur this evidence.

I have been threatened, and ridicularized, because i decided to make all this public and wide known.

That is your fault and why I entered the thread. We do not need petty bickering in MABS. Do you understand this now? The blame is squarely at your feet.

You posted this in February. If you would have posted these emails IN FEBRUARY" those people would have had to produce proof refuting you emails.



Mr. Nunes and his friends through internet and in the real world, have made and are making their moves so that his image comes out clean, and i look like a jealous one.

Are you implying you wouldn't do the same? I mean this is a ridiculous argument. If I call you a fraud and won't produce evidence well that makes the situation my fault.

That allows people to say:
I have a grudge.
I have no proof.
I'm a hater.



Thats why sometimes i come a bit rough, i am tired of roaming alone.
I apologize for that, and maintain what i say, he is a fraud.

I have presented what was requested, its up to the readers and Mods to decide if its worth to move it or not to MABS, as someone wrote before, what else should i do, get a written confession?

CheersYou should have acted right back in February? Yeah, that is one of many answers.

You started the thread on February 11. You posted the proof April 08 after much complaining.

Sarcasm doesn't suit you when it is your fault.

Here let me fix your post:


I have presented what was requested

added by it is fake Three months later.


Manlobeiro, is making a right job, in exposing this fraud. And he deserves that his tread is back to the fraud category instead o ymas. Or do you expect a written confession of Helder Nunes himself??

Funny how it took him 3 months to produce the evidence.
Funny how that isn't taken into account.

manlobeiro
4/15/2009 1:05pm,
Let's make sure you understand. You complained, yelled, made accusations against my character, and you are now making demands.

Facts are facts.

I asked you for proof, explained my position, and you attacke my character. You then refused to provide the evidence, I then moved the thread. A week later, you finally did.

In the basic terms, I slapped your wrist and you complied. Now, you are demanding instant satisfaction.

I waited on purpose.

Now, you learned another lesson treat others how you want to be treated. This thread would have never been moved IF YOU PROVIDED THE EMAILS BACK IN FEBRUARY.

I would have never came onto the thread because, you had proof. Other members, who speak Portuguese, would have helped and you wouldn't be going it as you say "alone."

Yet, when you balk, for almost three months, people think you are lying. Yes, sorry, that is the way it goes.





That is your fault and why I entered the thread. We do not need petty bickering in MABS. Do you understand this now? The blame is squarely at your feet.

You posted this in February. If you would have posted these emails IN FEBRUARY" those people would have had to produce proof refuting you emails.




Are you implying you wouldn't do the same? I mean this is a ridiculous argument. If I call you a fraud and won't produce evidence well that makes the situation my fault.

That allows people to say:
I have a grudge.
I have no proof.
I'm a hater.

You should have acted right back in February? Yeah, that is one of many answers.

You started the thread on February 11. You posted the proof April 08 after much complaining.

Sarcasm doesn't suit you when it is your fault.

Here let me fix your post:





Funny how it took him 3 months to produce the evidence.
Funny how that isn't taken into account.

It is a Fake, calm yourself down.
I have not delivered the emails earlier because i wanted everybody to check for itself and not just take my word for it, so that i was not accused of being a liar, or forging evidence, or whatever.

Ironic.
I demand nothing, i just hope you do what you think is right and calm down.
Cheers

It is Fake
4/15/2009 2:03pm,
It is a Fake, calm yourself down.
I have not delivered the emails earlier because i wanted everybody to check for itself and not just take my word for it, so that i was not accused of being a liar, or forging evidence, or whatever.

I thought you understod the rules. Produce the evidence it is reserached and confirmed.

This is an excuse.


ironic.

Yes, we both know you don't understand the usage of the word.



I demand nothing, i just hope you do what you think is right and calm down.
CheersYes, you want this back because "it is the right thing." That is your opinion.

That is a demand.

MrJ
4/15/2009 2:17pm,
"This is our showcase forum and raison d'Ítre; please keep to the subject at hand and take the squabbling to YMAS or Trollshido."

We get why you didn't post everything at first. It was explained more than once in this thread that is not how debates are done in MABS (read forum stickies).

Now there is more squabbling. If you're going to complain and tell the mods to calm down, maybe this should stay in YMAS. That is rather unfortunate, as you probably have some valid points to make about the topic at hand.

It is Fake
4/15/2009 2:21pm,
Calm Down?
I was clear and concise:


Couple of things.

1) Defending the guy is fine, keep the personal attacks to a minimum.
2) Aliases are used for various reasons attack his position not his screen name.
3) Proof. This will be moved if no proof is provided.

Getting mad doesn't work. Defending him mad doesn't work.

Notice, I tried to stay neutral. If anything, I took your side by saying it was okay to use an alias as a screen name.

Second post:


I understand English is your 2nd language but, read the rules and understand them okay?

Solid proof of his fraudulent behavior.

We need a website where he claims a BJJ Black belt. Sorry, not what you heard or saw or was written on another web forum.


You have come here attacking people trying to help you get your information straight. You are coming off as a person with a grudge.

The rules of the forum are stated clearly. You decided to bicker for 2 months before providing proof.

I'm completely calm. You will wait until I cull the thread, for it to be moved back, if it is moved back.

3 months of inaction vs 1 week of inaction?
Please.

We tried to get you to follow rules for two months. Now, you want instant gratification?

You need to cam down.

Patience is a virtue.

manlobeiro
4/15/2009 5:53pm,
MrJ
ęNow there is more squabbling. If you're going to complain and tell the mods to calm down, maybe this should stay in YMAS.Ľ
Squabbling? I am not squabbling. If i think a mod is excited (huge bold letters), i ask him to calm down, is it a sin?

It is fake, there are a lot of things i dont agree with you.
Maybe a lot was 'lost in translation', but that does not matter.

ęYes, you want this back because "it is the right thing." That is your opinion.
That is a demand.Ľ

I havent said what the right thing was, if you did not understood, i said ę i just hope you do what you think is rightĽ wich means ęlet it be to your conscienceĽ :D
So i demand nothing.Probably the right thing is to delete this thread. Go ahead if you want.
I have done my job, 3 months of inaction, but i have raised a doubt about something, to my fellow martial comrades in Canada, Ottawa specially, my duty is done.
If it is not deleted or moved its ok all the same, and i will continue to post new information when i have. Giving it better thought, if you dont delete ir, Its a Fake, leave it here, in YMAS, it gives me more slack to inform people.

Cheers, Its a Fake

Joana
4/15/2009 6:34pm,
Mister It is Fake


I think this time you really exceed yourself. You need to calm down. Relax, drink some tee instead of Canadian redbull.

Manlobeiro present proofs. Everybody understood why he didnít present them in February. Because he didnít have it. It would be much more credible if you or someone else check it, instead of him. All he did was contact all the persons which Helder Nunes crossed in the past (one of them was my former sensei) and ask some questions. Simple, isnít it? Or is against the Rules of the Bullshito??

I think you were the only one that didnít understood, but there is no need to become so cocky and using Font 72, Bold, Underline. My screen has only 13.1 inches.

Regards to all

It is Fake
4/15/2009 11:54pm,
^^^Hahahahahaha.

Raaarggh. Like I said patience.


leave it here, in YMAS, it gives me more slack to inform people.

Actually, no it really doesn't.

jj4ever
4/16/2009 5:07pm,
Sorry for just enter now on this discussion.
I believe that Mr Lobeiro from what i read conduce the argument on a very honest and correct way.
In first place he gives the directions of the places and persons where you can check all the frauds for your self. And that is the proper way of making the proof. This way all information you get will be in first hand and not manipulated by anyone.
In second place when you force, for the wrong reasons i believe, he presented the evidences has your self admited.
The rest of the discussion about that i think its just ego talk.
Are the evidences enough?thats the only question i do?
Yes or no?
Did he prove what he claims?
Yes or no?

It is Fake
4/16/2009 6:48pm,
Rules:

http://www.bullshido.net/viewarticle.php?articleid=111


Evidentiary Support and References: If you make an assertion, you should back it up with as much solid evidence as possible. Your argument will be scrutinized and if you cannot support why you feel "Taekwondo sucks", you will not be taken seriously. Additionally, if possible, you should provide references for all of your evidence.



There is very light moderation on our forums, and we do not allow any "sacred cows" to go unchallenged. In fact, they're more likely to be slaughtered, danced around, and then eaten. No topic is taboo, and expect to support any argument with factual evidence.



Respect the Mods: The moderators are here to keep the forums safe, sane, and secure. Please do not harass or intentionally annoy the mods. If they ask you to do something, please do it. If you have such an issue with the mods or the light moderation policies here that you cannot participate constructively and maturely, then feel free to not post here.


Proof. This will be moved if no proof is provided. None was provided when asked.

manlobeiro
4/16/2009 8:35pm,
Rules:

http://www.bullshido.net/viewarticle.php?articleid=111








None was provided when asked.

Correction,
ęAdditionally, if possible, you should provide references for all of your evidence.Ľ - i did provide references.

I already explained why no 'concrete evidence' was put forward.
I presented proofs about an article of ethics, copied from an american Jiujitsu organization, and that Mr. Nunes claims being author.

So:
ę None was provided when asked.Ľ not true.

I am a 'Mod' in a couple of Foruns, one portuguese and one European (not martial art related) and altough i understand the initial reaction of the Moderator in this forum, i think he got carried away and not being calm led him to (in my opinion) to be more harmfull to this subject, than doing any good.
I believe that any further investigation in this subject, will be inefective due to this.

Its my opinion, i do not mean to offend anyone.

As i said, i will keep investigating, trying to gather the proof i can, and i will inform the readers of the forum, if i am allowed to.

Cheers to all, and to the Mod also.

It is Fake
4/16/2009 9:42pm,
ę None was provided when asked.Ľ not true.

I am a 'Mod' in a couple of Foruns, one portuguese and one European (not martial art related) and altough i understand the initial reaction of the Moderator in this forum, i think he got carried away and not being calm led him to (in my opinion) to be more harmfull to this subject, than doing any good.

Yes, I told you and humanstungun to calm down. Yes, that wasn't helpful right? That was my initial reaction. So please, don't start lying at this juncture it doesn't help you.









I believe that any further investigation in this subject, will be inefective due to this.


Oh that means you are done?


As i said, i will keep investigating, trying to gather the proof i can, and i will inform the readers of the forum, if i am allowed to.


Of course not.

Assigning blame accepting no responsibility for your actions.
Same old same old. :blob1:

Patience.