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TxSanshou
4/08/2009 9:21am,
This was a debate that me and one of my friends had about boxers fighting muay thai practitioners his argument was that a pro boxer like Roy Jones jr. or Mike Tyson or Ali could destroy any muay thai fighter in a fight under muay thai rules. Ok now iron Mike Tyson was defiantly one of the best and Ali was in my opinion the best boxer to ever put on a pair of boxing gloves but in a fight under muay thai rules im going with the thai fighter especially if its someone of Anuwat or Buakaw's status. My friend argued that the boxers timing hand speed and superior knockout power in their punches would decide the fight because he believes that since punches land more often then kicks knees or elbows the thai fighters would not be able to use their skills properly.
Now I know boxers are obviously the best punchers in the world and would probably beat anyone just trading punches but in A fight under muay thai rules I'm saying the thai fighter wins in about 10 to 15 seconds via leg kick technical knock out.When I said this my friend said and I quote "leg kicks are not an automatic win button" but in my opinion if you've never been leg kicked in your life like most pro boxers and your getting leg kicked by someone who can snap a baseball bat like a tooth pick with a kick your going out of the stadium in a wheel chair. And another thing is I've never sparred with a pro boxer before but I have sparred with a friend who boxed for about two years he had good head movement and timing but his punches did not feel too much harder than the average punch thats probably not the same for a pro though.But I digress my point was the thai fighter would win because he gets punched in the face very often and probably wont panic when he gets hit in the face even by a pro boxer but the boxer never gets kicked kneed or elbowed and thats what losses him the fight in my book.

feel free to share your thoughts and opinions God bless

NJM
4/08/2009 9:30am,
Can a squirrel beat a chicken in a race to the moon?

It is Fake
4/08/2009 9:31am,
To be young again.

You answered your own question.
It depends on the rules end of story. I bet you wanted to put this in the striking area didn't you?

I should move it to trollshido.

ceeb
4/08/2009 9:34am,
I would imagine if both fighters were top of their game in their respective sports, they are the same weight class and follow the rules of thai boxing than the thai boxer has the advantage. Switch the fight to a boxing match and I think the favor falls to the boxer.

If the boxer has lots of ring time in muay thai fights than it might be a different story. In a street fight, I'm not sure who would win (kick to the nuts by the thai fighter?)

NJM
4/08/2009 9:37am,
Okay, never mind, I'll bite:

If you thought the boxer would win under Muay Thai rules you'd probably make these assumptions:

1. "Pro Boxers" (not kickboxers, apparently) have superior hand striking game to "Pro Thai Boxers", and perhaps some other superiority such as footwork/movement.

2. Kicks and Muay Thai-specific techniques like elbows, knees, and shin kicks would not be enough to overcome the "pro boxer"'s advantage.

Now that we've broken it down, can either 1 or 2 REALLY be argued effectively, either for or against?

Matt Phillips
4/08/2009 9:38am,
This was a debate that me and one of my friends had about boxers fighting muay thai practitioners his argument was that a pro boxer like Roy Jones jr. or Mike Tyson or Ali could destroy any muay thai fighter in a fight under muay thai rules. Ok now iron Mike Tyson was defiantly one of the best and Ali was in my opinion the best boxer to ever put on a pair of boxing gloves but in a fight under muay thai rules im going with the thai fighter especially if its someone of Anuwat or Buakaw's status. My friend argued that the boxers timing hand speed and superior knockout power in their punches would decide the fight because he believes that since punches land more often then kicks knees or elbows the thai fighters would not be able to use their skills properly.
Now I know boxers are obviously the best punchers in the world and would probably beat anyone just trading punches but in A fight under muay thai rules I'm saying the thai fighter wins in about 10 to 15 seconds via leg kick technical knock out.When I said this my friend said and I quote "leg kicks are not an automatic win button" but in my opinion if you've never been leg kicked in your life like most pro boxers and your getting leg kicked by someone who can snap a baseball bat like a tooth pick with a kick your going out of the stadium in a wheel chair. And another thing is I've never sparred with a pro boxer before but I have sparred with a friend who boxed for about two years he had good head movement and timing but his punches did not feel too much harder than the average punch thats probably not the same for a pro though.But I digress my point was the thai fighter would win because he gets punched in the face very often and probably wont panic when he gets hit in the face even by a pro boxer but the boxer never gets kicked kneed or elbowed and thats what losses him the fight in my book.

feel free to share your thoughts and opinions God bless

Congratualtions, we agree on something. You do not want your first leg kick experience to happen in the middle of a fight. If the boxer knew what he was doing (ie: could leg check) then it could be interesting. Compare:

YouTube - Boxer vs. Kickboxer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBG9PeImA10)

YouTube - Ray Sefo vs Francois Botha - K1 World Grand Prix - Round 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3-SuVkNS8Y)

Totemicist
4/08/2009 9:40am,
This was a debate that me and one of my friends had about boxers fighting muay thai practitioners his argument was that a pro boxer like Roy Jones jr. or Mike Tyson or Ali could destroy any muay thai fighter in a fight under muay thai rules. Ok now iron Mike Tyson was defiantly one of the best and Ali was in my opinion the best boxer to ever put on a pair of boxing gloves but in a fight under muay thai rules im going with the thai fighter especially if its someone of Anuwat or Buakaw's status. My friend argued that the boxers timing hand speed and superior knockout power in their punches would decide the fight because he believes that since punches land more often then kicks knees or elbows the thai fighters would not be able to use their skills properly.
Now I know boxers are obviously the best punchers in the world and would probably beat anyone just trading punches but in A fight under muay thai rules I'm saying the thai fighter wins in about 10 to 15 seconds via leg kick technical knock out.When I said this my friend said and I quote "leg kicks are not an automatic win button" but in my opinion if you've never been leg kicked in your life like most pro boxers and your getting leg kicked by someone who can snap a baseball bat like a tooth pick with a kick your going out of the stadium in a wheel chair. And another thing is I've never sparred with a pro boxer before but I have sparred with a friend who boxed for about two years he had good head movement and timing but his punches did not feel too much harder than the average punch thats probably not the same for a pro though.But I digress my point was the thai fighter would win because he gets punched in the face very often and probably wont panic when he gets hit in the face even by a pro boxer but the boxer never gets kicked kneed or elbowed and thats what losses him the fight in my book.

feel free to share your thoughts and opinions God bless

Well that was a very long wall of text, now how can I put this without sounding like a ****.

Thai Boxers train for the rule set they fight under, Boxers train for the rule set that they fight under.

Therefore if one had to fight under the other ruleset they would be at a disadvantage.

This would seem so obvious to me as to render your long rambling wall of inane text a waste of the small amount of my life it took up.*

*I was doing really well up till this point.

KhorneliusPraxx
4/08/2009 9:40am,
TxSanshou, I noticed that you didn't say anything about weight classes. Are you two comparing a 120 lbs thai vs Tyson in his prime? These aren't street fights, they are sports. The have their own rules and weight classes. If you mean equal weight, it depends on the rule set. The one who specializes in that rules set will win.
The best wrestler would beat the best BJJer in a wrestling match.
The best BJJer would beat the best wrestler in a BJJ match.
Any questions?

Matt Phillips
4/08/2009 10:09am,
The best BJJer would beat the best wrestler in a BJJ match.UMmm.. no.
I'm sure that's what Sperry thought before Kerr beat him. Tell me, is ADCC more similar to wrestling rules or BJJ rules?

han090
4/08/2009 10:09am,
He said leg kicks are not an automatic win button? Tell him superior knockout power is not an automatic win button.

Then give him a leg kick, which breaks his leg.

As others have said, obviously the fighter who has trained specifically for one ruleset will have an advantage. So all other things being equal, they will win.

If boxers would win in muay thai, you would see almost no kicks, or knees in muay thai would you?

TxSanshou
4/08/2009 10:14am,
To be young again.

You answered your own question.
It depends on the rules end of story. I bet you wanted to put this in the striking area didn't you?

I should move it to trollshido.

Nope why would I put it in the striking section if this section is specifically for style vs style discussions ?

TxSanshou
4/08/2009 10:21am,
TxSanshou, I noticed that you didn't say anything about weight classes. Are you two comparing a 120 lbs thai vs Tyson in his prime? These aren't street fights, they are sports. The have their own rules and weight classes. If you mean equal weight, it depends on the rule set. The one who specializes in that rules set will win.
The best wrestler would beat the best BJJer in a wrestling match.
The best BJJer would beat the best wrestler in a BJJ match.
Any questions?

Nah I did not mean a heavyweight boxer vs a 120 pound thai fighter I was just using Ali and Tyson as examples . What I meant was a boxer of their status vs a thai fighter of very high status both in the same weight class of course sorry for the confusion.

Totemicist
4/08/2009 10:22am,
Nope why would I put it in the striking section if this section is specifically for style vs style discussions ?

http://westrum.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/holy-facepalm.jpg

Jesus holy facepalm batman.

I do not see this as a style vs style discussion as you are talking about how good one style would be at another styles ruleset.

It's like saying would a sharpshooter beat a knife fighter a in a knifefight.

It does not make a meaningful comparison between the 2 styles.

TxSanshou
4/08/2009 10:41am,
http://westrum.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/holy-facepalm.jpg

Jesus holy facepalm batman.

I do not see this as a style vs style discussion as you are talking about how good one style would be at another styles ruleset.

It's like saying would a sharpshooter be beat a knife fighter a in a knifefight.

It does not make a meaningful comparison between the 2 styles.

Hey I never said boxing would do good in another styles rule set my friend did. I actually said the exact opposite and some styles have proven they can do well in almost any styles rule set i.e there have been bjj practitioners that out wrestle wrestlers and boxers that beat kick boxers. Ultimately both arts are striking martial arts and because of that is acceptable to compare them under a rule set where all elements of striking are permitted thats just my opinion even if one has only focused on one element of striking (the boxer)

Matt Phillips
4/08/2009 10:49am,
So how about full boxing rules with leg kicks (only) allowed. That's the minimal ruleset to answer the question at hand. No clinch, no Teep, no head or body kick, no knees or elbows. I still say the Thaiboxer has the advantage, but I'd give a bigger advantage to a low-kick kickboxer or a Dutch Thaiboxer (usually better boxing).

There was a boxing match involving a Thai (western) boxer where the other guy bit the Thai. The bit fighter busted out with knees, elbows and kicks and messed the other guy up pretty bad. I wish I had the names. It was written up in "The Ring" back in the late 90's.

TxSanshou
4/08/2009 10:56am,
So how about full boxing rules with leg kicks (only) allowed. That's the minimal ruleset to answer the question at hand. No clinch, no Teep, no head or body kick, no knees or elbows. I still say the Thaiboxer has the advantage, but I'd give a bigger advantage to a low-kick kickboxer or a Dutch Thaiboxer (usually better boxing).

There was a boxing match involving a Thai (western) boxer where the other guy bit the Thai. The bit fighter busted out with knees, elbows and kicks and messed the other guy up pretty bad. I wish I had the names. It was written up in "The Ring" back in the late 90's.

With no clinch no teep no head or body kicks knees or elbows I'm still giving the win to the thai boxer two or three good leg kicks and its over