PDA

View Full Version : Was Judo an ICMA?



Pages : [1] 2 3 4

Bang!
1/11/2004 1:45am,
It seems to me that "The Soft Way" is centered around the fundamental tenet of yielding. However, most--if not all--of the Judoka I have met are bulky lads and lasses who use their strength to force an offset, by jerking their opponents to and fro, before attempting to smash them into the earth.

I'm sure that at this point, we're all aware of the paradox of sport-fighting more consistently being able to produce competent fighters than those styles that are too deadly for t3h ring. As part of this phenomenon, some unbelievably tough Judo players have come into the picture. However, I can't help but wonder if the squad of disciples that originally laboured under Kano were taught a different method of yielding--one closer to that of that found in ICMAs. A methodology predicated on physical relaxation and sensitivity is very easy to lose, since it is both counter-intuitive and difficult to practice; never mind that the internal states of practitioners are not apparent to observers, only techniques.

What I would like to know is whether this type of approach was lost to most Judoka, or if it simply never existed in the first place.

Bang!
1/11/2004 1:48am,
As an addendum, I just want to point out that I'm not trying to imply that Judo actually was an ICMA, but ask if it simply ever resembled one.

The Wastrel
1/11/2004 2:09am,
of the Judoka I have met are bulky lads and lasses who use their strength to force an offset, by jerking their opponents to and fro, before attempting to smash them into the earth.

Please don't tell me you practice Shuai Jiao...please. Because if you do, then it's in more danger than I thought.

RepMonk,
You're never going to get these smooth throws when you're fighting against another experienced grappler. Struggle happens.

If Judo was ever similar to an ICMA, it stopped being so when it started working.

A troll for a troll, my friend.

Gezere
1/11/2004 2:51am,
Originally posted by Repulsive Monkey
As an addendum, I just want to point out that I'm not trying to imply that Judo actually was an ICMA, but ask if it simply ever resembled one.

Short and sweet.
NO!

Bang!
1/11/2004 2:57am,
Please don't tell me you practice Shuai Jiao...please. Because if you do, then it's in more danger than I thought.

Meaning what exactly? I practice TCC. My only experience with Shuai Jiao was competing in an SJ match a few months ago.

RepMonk,
You're never going to get these smooth throws when you're fighting against another experienced grappler. Struggle happens.

If by struggle, you mean using brute strength, then I disagree--at least with its inevitability. It may be because I haven't fought against very many talented grapplers, but to date, I've found that I fare well against people who use a lot of power.

It's not abouth smooth throws, per say--there is a whole lot of back and forth with anybody good--it's about taking advantage of any committed force.

If Judo was ever similar to an ICMA, it stopped being so when it started working.

A troll for a troll, my friend.

Indeed. However, if we can forget about how absolutely horrible anything that has ever sat in the doleful shadow of ICMA is for a minute, then perhaps we can address the actual point of physical relaxation within Judo.

Greese
1/11/2004 2:59am,
Then yes. All decent Judo people take advantage of commited force. You won't see anyone decent musceling through the throws.

Bang!
1/11/2004 3:01am,
Originally posted by greese1
Then yes. All decent Judo people take advantage of commited force. You won't see anyone decent musceling through the throws. Ok. My question is whether this approach is taught from an early stage, or "discovered" by more advanced practitioners.

Greese
1/11/2004 3:09am,
You are taught that early on. That is the theory behind combinations and counters.

Bang!
1/11/2004 3:09am,
Originally posted by Osiris
"If by struggle, you mean using brute strength, then I disagree"

Maybe he meant "struggle". Thank you, Mr. Smartass.


Isnt that the principle behind the majority of the techniques?I think so. The only reason I bring this up is because the Judoka that I've met (not that they're necessarily a representative sample) seem to [mostly] use this concept for the techniques themselves, but not the setting up of those techniques.

Greese
1/11/2004 3:18am,
Judo people tend to be very proactive. They make action happen.

deus ex machina
1/11/2004 3:28am,
Why the **** are you trying to legitimize your pathetic ICMA jollies by trying to draw a correlation between a very respected (mainly because it's EFFECTIVE) martial art like Judo?

Fucking troll.

willy
1/11/2004 3:34am,
Originally posted by greese1
Judo people tend to be very proactive. They make action happen.


this is exactly it.. if you push or pull a well trained judaka you are getting launched, however since both know this they play at trying to get you to overcommit with tugs and pulls which leads them into counters half the time :D get a guy off the street and he'll have no idea what is happening to him and it will be VERY yeilding

Bang!
1/11/2004 3:44am,
What I'm *trying* to do is figure what Judo looked like before it became a sport MA. Sure, sure, bringing up a possible parallel to an ICMA is trolling, but hey, whatevs. You calling me a troll is like having Mussolini calling me a control freak.

Bang!
1/11/2004 3:45am,
So I can view the whole push/pull thing as more of a ploy to incite someone to commit?

willy
1/11/2004 3:49am,
Originally posted by Repulsive Monkey
What I'm *trying* to do is figure what Judo looked like before it became a sport MA. Sure, sure, bringing up a possible parallel to an ICMA is trolling, but hey, whatevs. You calling me a troll is like having Mussolini calling me a control freak.


okay, well if i recall correctly it was two school sof ju jutsu(tenshin ryu and kito ryu ithink) that were the main basis of judo soooooo since most jjj is more striking oriented along with a "brute force" mentality (kick out his leg to take his balance then sweep etc..) i would assume it was not very IMA oriented

willy
1/11/2004 3:50am,
Originally posted by Repulsive Monkey
So I can view the whole push/pull thing as more of a ploy to incite someone to commit?



for the good higher ranks yes, for us lower ranks we just try to muscle trough when our technique is not good enough