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Wolf1099
12/30/2003 9:20pm,
Hi. I've been browsing the web and I've seen a lot of stuff about how Karate dosen't work and a lot of black belts even do not win in street fights. I took karate when I was like 7 but I quit quickly, but I know a lot of you take karate seriously and have been practicing for years. Is this a true fact that karate dosen't work? There's some pretty painful kicks and hand striking techniques in there. Peace.

- Wolf

Hannibal
12/30/2003 9:31pm,
Of coarse it dosen't work !!Its basically kickboxing.
I've seen dozens of karate practitioners in many many dojos train.The way they train,isn't the way they fight.When training and doing kata they stand in lovely deep rigid stances with their fists chambered by the waist line while they do reverse punches. Yet when they do sparring,its just like kickboxing. Karate guys bounce around on the balls of their feet,they flick jabs and **** like that. All that solid forearm upper and lower block stuff is to slow and dosen't really work.

Muay Thai or kickboxing is more direct and straight to the point.They are the probably the best stand up striking arts.Karate has alot of useless baggage attatched to it.If you can try MT of KB. If not do boxing.

Kempocos
12/30/2003 9:58pm,
Not all KARATE fights like described, the hand chambered and down blocks in Okinawian styles are used for grappling and throws. In the school I train at nobody bounces on thier toes.

Black_Rose
12/30/2003 10:04pm,
Hmmm, i dont know about what Hannibal said.

Sure alot of Karate is BS, but i do believe alot is misunderstood by the general public espically when it comes to their kata work.

Frankly i have known quite a few people who study Karate who fight like absolute monsters and dont fight like kickboxers. It really depends on the person, personally things like kata are important as they are a FOUNDATION of techniques and movement which after understanding its concept can be changed to your persoanlly preference in order to make them applicable. Thats just a little bit of what i have gathered. So yes, Karate doesnt work.. FOR YOU! but. for many other people it does and good luck to them .

TRAIN HARD!!! :)

IndoChinese
12/30/2003 10:05pm,
Karate work? not at all.

See it uses punches and kicks, even some sweeps and throws, and *gasp* even chokes.

problem is, those things only work when done by a MMA fighter trained in Muay Thai or BJJ.

before MMA came along and defined reality, we all lived in dreamland. Now that we have been brought to earth by the double leg tackle, we see that, in fact, Karate does NOT work.

thank god for the cage. cause till now, nobody ever fought before, and we actually used to think that Karate DID work?

Hey, maybe it only works on Japanese people!? That's a thought...

Southpaw
12/30/2003 11:25pm,
Originally posted by Hannibal
Of coarse it dosen't work !!Its basically kickboxing.
... Yet when they do sparring,its just like kickboxing...................Muay Thai or kickboxing is more direct and straight to the point.They are the probably the best stand up striking arts.Karate has alot of useless baggage attatched to it.


wtf?

udo
12/30/2003 11:50pm,
Most karate schools train like crap. The same stuff that happens in TKD. Too much emphasis on forms, never really hitting a bag, let alone another person.

Nihilanthic
12/30/2003 11:53pm,
I think what he means is in MT or just vanilla KB you train your punch like you use it. You train your kicks like you use them. You do bag work and pad work and condition and spar.

versus....

Meditation, learning Japanese, doing rictualized things, kata, board breaking and using chambered punches and deep rigid stances and KIAIING when you do that reverse punch.

I'd hapeen to agree that cutting the crap is a good thing. If I want rictuals and various cultural things I'll go to Japan (in that instance). If I want to meditate I'll go find a monk. I just want to learn the techniques and drill.

udo
12/30/2003 11:55pm,
What Nihilantic said. Right on the money.

GAB corp.
12/31/2003 12:05am,
I hate to say it but I agree with you guys for the most part. Modern sport karate doesn't appear to be very effective from what I've seen, mostly because I believe they train for point sparring tournaments, which is fine assuming that's what they want. I don't like the bouncing and the tapping but hey, there's nothing you can really do.

I also do karate but we don't train for sport. We don't kiai or break wood.

fernando
12/31/2003 1:20am,
i kiai before doing a take down!

J-kid
12/31/2003 3:27am,
Originally posted by Osiris
Dude, the Japanese dont fight like that. Karate doesnt work. While occasionally some huge freak of nature comes and MAKES it work by, it wont help the masses in the least. Now, the Japanese LOVE sport fighting, but no karate styles have been featured with the exception of kyuwhatever. Why is that? And why doesnt an art claiming to produce fighters produce fighters with verifiable skill? And dont give me the "Its for t3h str333t" bullshit. They have no problem showing off parlor tricks, but they cant show any fighting ability? Bullshit. Youre better off telling me that they can only win using groin strikes and eye gouges which is also bullshit. Also, whats up with the convinient simplification? Its always "Karateka Punch...Karate work" when its convenient for its supporters or those of other questionable arts, but street fighters do that too. Does that mean that they can just head out and fight a muay thai stylist? No it doesnt even though the same basic techniques are used. Its MUCH more complicated than the general arsenal and you know this.

LoL bob sapp used to Train at my school amc.....

He has done boxing and MT there and if you ask me was doing alot better when he was there working out with Josh and matt ivan etc. But since he is so big and has a base there he just farts around and makes big dough turning himself a janapense as possible switching his art to Karate.

But i cant blame him, because he brings in more money and plus for him it dosnt matter how he hits you because he is so powerful that if he swings a wild hay maker or dos a karate chop or a cross, it wont matter cause your knocked out.


Also i believe there may be some good Karate/kickboxing schools somewhere but they are as hard to find as a MMA school.

Mercurius
12/31/2003 6:12am,
It's not as simple as works/doesn't work (as if such designations were as polar and definite as 0 and 1 in machine language). The usefulness of karate lies in how you apply what it provides you. Karate teaches you how to coordinate the force of your entire body into punches and kicks. Since when did punches and kicks not work because they were karate punches and kicks and not Muay Thai punches and kicks? Yeah, it is as simple as the basic arsenal, because the only person who decides how the moves are used is you. Not Gichin Funakoshi, not Choki Motobu, YOU decide how YOU fight. If you suck, don't blame Gogen Yamaguchi, blame yourself. If you thrash people, maybe it's more you doing the work than Kanbun Uechi.

If your sensei is teaching you how to do a move exactly the way his teacher taught him because his teacher's teacher taught it to him that way and so on back through Okinawa, China and Ancient Greece, FIND A DIFFERENT SCHOOL because your teacher and everyone like him is responsible for all of the stagnation for which the traditional martial arts are villified today. The continued existence and practicality of all martial arts has throughout history relied upon their constant evolution and application by individuals.

Okay, so karate fighting strategy and training methods 'don't work.' But what exactly don't they work at? They sure as hell work in the Sabaki Challenge and Kyokushin tournaments! Do they not work against Muay Thai men or against muggers armed with more weapons than Batman? Sure, but maybe, just maybe, it's because they're not supposed to, just like the bottom end of a screwdriver is not supposed to be used as a hammer. When someone invents 'anti-Muay Thai' or 'anti-mugger' karate, we'll see what works and what doesn't work.

Look at BAJI! Check out a form, it looks like the same flower fist kung fu crap we're all used to laughing at. But watch Baji in action, and it's a different story. Why does Baji 'work' and karate 'not work'? Maybe it has something to do with the fighters themselves! Are Baji men more ready to dance around their opponents, then slam them with an elbow strike out of nowhere or slip a jab and follow it with a palm thrust to the face? Do karate men ground themselves in the delusion that every fight has to look like two ends of a kata? A Baji man holds the record of being 5x Champion of the World Muaythai Tournament (http://crane.50megs.com/index6t.htm). Is Karate so much weaker than Baji that it can achieve no similar feat? The histories of Mas Oyama and Yoshiji Soeno should prove otherwise. The deciding factor in whether you win or lose or whether your art 'works' or not is how you use it. The same Karate that Mas Oyama used to beat the Muay Thai fighter Black Cobra was beaten by a geriatric Tai Chi master. It's all relative.

Karate (like a lot of arts) is one third what you make of it, one third how you use it, and one third what you use it for. When you look at it that way, everything from BJJ to XMA 'works' in one way or another.

Footclansoldier
12/31/2003 6:31am,
I think what alot of you people are forgetting is that there is no single style called karate. Karate is a term that labels a big family of japanese/okinawan martial arts. Compare Shotokan to Kyokushinkai, its a different game.

Hannibal
12/31/2003 8:24am,
I agree that when it comes to karate the only style to impress me is Kyokushin.The Kyokushin guys are normally harder than the rest. Except there is not much grappling/chokeholds in Kyokushin because grappling is not allowed in Kyokushin tournaments.It used to be but what happend was contestants with previous experiance in Judo had an advantage over many others.

Any grappling I have seen being taught in Karate be it Goju/Shotokan/Kyokushin is just basic judo at best.

Look at the early days of K - 1. All your big Kyokushin stars had to cross train in boxing and Muay Thai to compete with the others and no where did I see them use any reverse punches or kata crap.You see this is my pioint. K-1 and UFC have told us that all that karate/kung fu stuff does jack ****. For a stand up striking art its Muay Thai or kickboxing. For a grappling art its BJJ or if you can't find a BJJ place then try Judo or Wrestling. Thats it. **** the rest.

ANd karate still looks like kickboxing with side kicks. All you need to do is watch karate guys sparring and you will discover this. What is the point in spending money on uniforms and grading fees and learning meaningless kata when you can go along to a Muuay Thai gym and get the right stuff the fist time around.

Owen
12/31/2003 8:26am,
The single thing that defines whether or not any style will work is its training methodology.