View Full Version : A foundational style before cross-training

12/30/2008 6:06am,
Let's say I wanted to train for a good while in a single style--something that covered all the ranges and weapons, along with empty-handed techniques--and make it a foundation to build on for future cross-training. what style would be good for that? Any recommendations?

12/30/2008 6:07am,
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Lu Tze
12/30/2008 6:24am,
If a style already covers everything, why the hell would you need to cross train?

Unfortunately there's no such thing, unless you include Kuk Sool Won, but you shouldn't because it's a fucking sham and a joke of a style. MMA is as close as you'd get, but that doesn't include weapons for obvious reasons.

Welcome to Bullshido.

12/30/2008 6:31am,
Not everything comprehensively, but a style that gives some attention to striking, groundwork, and weapons, without specializing in them in the way BJJ does with ground fighting or Muay Thai does with stand-up fighting.

And thank you for the welcome.

Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs
12/30/2008 6:50am,
edit: because of double post

Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs
12/30/2008 6:51am,
Not everything comprehensively, but a style that gives some attention to striking, groundwork, and weapons, without specializing in them in the way BJJ does with ground fighting or Muay Thai does with stand-up fighting.

And thank you for the welcome.

Minimum will be two styles: MMA and FMA.
Or you could look for a MMA club that focus on self-defense (Yes, that also exists), those clubs will already have merged MMA and FMA to one style. But in that case you have to look at each club seperatly to find out if it's good.

12/30/2008 7:01am,
Thanks for the info. I live in the Minneapolis area and was looking at the Minnesota Kali Group (http://www.mnkali.com), which is owned by Rick Faye, who studied under Dan Inosanto. They teach Wing Chun, Silat, Muay Thai, Kali, Jun Fan, JKD, Grappling, and Savate. Does anyone have a line on whether or not it's a good school?

12/30/2008 8:58am,
How old are you? What are your goals? Why do you need to train against weapons other than to tell people you pretend to take pretend knives from pretend attackers?

12/30/2008 9:08am,
Mid-20s. A working-class average joe with aspirations of being a writer. I would like to condition my mind and my body a bit more, push myself out of my comfort zone, learn how to defend myself, and in the last pursuit, to do so with training that covers a reasonably broad array of situations, believing that that "better to have and not need, than to need and not have" is pretty good advice.

12/30/2008 9:36am,
In that case I'd drop the weapons bit. Almost any sport related martial art will give you what you are looking for. Typically Judo is the cheapest and in my opinion one of if not the best unarmed self defense arts.

Typical MMA schools will offer separate bjj/mt/etc classes in addition to MMA classes. At my school the instructor has you try both BJJ and MT and then do only one for a couple of months before doing both.

Forget about the hocus pocus mind stuff. Training will help you focus but should be a side effect of training in a martial art and not the main goal.

12/30/2008 11:53am,
Thank you for the advice. And we're both on the same wave length about mental conditioning. I was referring to focus, coordination, and operating under stress.

12/30/2008 12:20pm,
I would offer a word of caution.

Most Inosanto guys took the JKD methodology and applied it to Kali. While this is not necessarily bad you often end up with guys who are more flash then function, they have dabbled in a lot of styles but may not have a solid delivery system. If you want to train under a Inosanto guy make sure he trains a single style of Kali as his focus. I.e. he started with Inosanto but then took up Pakiti Tirsai full time. This tends to be the best bet as then they will have the JKD mentality of keeping what works AND a solid enough background in a single style to make sure they actually know what works.

Now, as for a style recommendation it largly depends on your comfort level.

If you want striking and grappling I would suggest either MMA, or Judo/BJJ and Boxing/Muay Thai. Now, an MMA school will have the styles you want but they tend to be expensive. Judo and Boxing tend to be inexpensive with very good quality control. BJJ is also a very solid grappling stlye with really good quality, at a higher per hour cost then Judo.

As for striking western Boxing tends to be inexpensive and easy to find. If your not like me and you want to kick as well as punch then Muay Thai or Kickboxing are options. However, most Kickboxing is of the cardio kind and not the combat kind, so don't assume. make sure any striking school competes and has a solid record.

My personal recommendation, bias included, would be Judo and Boxing. However, any of the styles I mentioned above, and a few I didn't like Wrestling and SAMBO and Savatte would all be solid options for you.

12/30/2008 12:30pm,
As a continuation and a slight tangent.....

When looking at a martial art you have to consider several factors.

One: Applicability. As in, will you ever actually use this? You can study European Broadsword but I doubt it will help you in a fight.

Two: Reality, as in is the style grounded in reality, do they pressure test, compete, does the style grow and change with the times? A perfect example of this is BJJ.

Three: Range. Combat is generally divided into four ranges, weapon, striking, clinch and ground. Your style(s) should cover as many of those ranges as possible and should allow you to transition from one to the other. A perect example would be boxing moving from striking to clinch, Muay thai for the same, Judo from Clinch to ground, etc.

Four: Value, Some people will argue this but I feel very strongly you have to keep your pocket book in mind. I can take BJJ for $120+ a mo. and learn to grapple and be a fantastic grappler, or I can wrestle for $40 a month. I won't be as technically proficient as a BJJ player, but I'll still be a very good grappler and at a much cheaper cost.

Just some points to ponder.

Blue Negation
12/30/2008 4:59pm,
If you want something with a wide wide range, try Shooto or Combat Submission Wrestling - wrestling plus submissions plus judo/sambo throws plus some striking (boxing based) with a smattering of weapons taught in CSW. I recently sparred a new student where I train who came from a Combat Submission Wrestling background and she performed quite well in all ranges of combat.

good luck finding it though, haha.

You could also try to find an eclectic school like mine where you can train BJJ, wrestling, Muay Thai, and FMA/JKD all under the same roof but those are pretty hard to find.

12/30/2008 5:43pm,
Since you're in Minneapolis, I would recommend this place:

These guys do kickboxing & ground grappling. The focus of the class is sparring. 3 5 min rounds in standup after beginning stretching and 3 5 min rounds at the end of class in ground grappling. Awesome place to learn very quickly and they have reasonable rates.

If you want more of a focus after that, you can check out the local Rickson Gracie affiliate:

Less focus on sparring for beginners. They also have Judo, weapons, & standup, which might be included int he fee.

There's also Brock Lesnar's & Sherk's place:

I don't know much about them, but they're probably the best MMA school in the area if you judge by their competitors records.