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TheMarquis
10/18/2008 10:11am,
Well, as the Ju Jitsu class that I'm attending is really picking up pace...

Just thought that I'd share my experiences of my first groundwork session with you awfully nice people.
Before I go any further - I want to set the scene about how I feel about 'rolling'...

Despite all of my MA experiences being ones strictly in the vertical plane, I've never thought of it as a waste of time. I do however think that in the context of self defense, it is really a worst case scenario and shouldn't really be considered the 'R34L D34DL3y' even if you are the king of every mat everywhere....

To be honest though, the one serious misconception that I had was that you could plan your way out of something like that fairly quickly - you know in the context of 'if they go for X - I go for Y, then N happens... I'll perform Z move and hey presto! ownership.'

To clarify anyone who watches any full contact MMA sport, and thinks that arm-locks can be adapted on resisting opponents when trying to keep them from doing the same to you, here's a small piece of advice....


Take up your YOUTUBE gained 'skills'...
Your hours of 'studying' form in MMA by watching it on pay per view (or whatever channel you can get it on)...
Your months of chatting to people in some forums about technique and going over it again and again..
The time spent discussing with friends about how to do what and when in the ring...AND THROW IT ALL OUT OF THE FUCKING WINDOW!

when you're a fucking noob - forget the planning like that as it just doesn't work that way at all... unless you've trained for a bloody long time so that kind of thing is much more instinctive (so like then you woun't be a noob yeah..?) .....

Ok?

Now having said that - here's a few things that I've learned from this new experience (and some will now express 'surprise' at some of these revelations) please be aware, this is from a rolling noob to other rolling noobs so, if you have learned this already and got those silly ideas of as mentioned before out of your head this will be old news for you...


Unless you are in a position that you know (NOT THINK, OR HOPE, OR WISH - get those optimistic BS ideas out right the **** now) gives you a real tactical advantage.... you will not have time or the skill to apply that cool looking wrist lock you got taught in your class a few weeks ago.
That cool looking wrist lock sucks when tried on a resisting opponent - don't bother with it, especially as your not just being attacked by one imb... they have bodyweight, grapples and grabs at their disposal also.

remaining calm and fluid when someone is trying their level best to pin you to the mat is again, really fucking optomistic - getting irrated with your lack of skills and abilites will only screw you up, learn from it and apply that learning for next time (PS if anyone can show me how to get mindset right now - please let me know).

Any weight advantage you have means utterly **** all, if you oppent has had more groundwork practice that you.
The mental and physical pressure of keeping up a grappling based assault is REALLY tiring - you might be able to lift really ****-house heavy weights using those machines in the gym... all that will not translate into you being able to do what you think you should be able to do with ground work.So, there it is - what I've learned so far.

So far - so good(ish), so there you go.

:XXhippylo

Diesel_Claus
10/18/2008 10:17am,
What.

Kambei Shimada
10/18/2008 10:27am,
What.

What he said^^^

pauli
10/18/2008 10:30am,
WP:BB

It is Fake
10/18/2008 10:32am,
He is warning people from being TV/Videotape grapplers and is telling everyone to get experience rolling instead of assuming.


IMO he is one of "those" people that thought he could attain skill from watching UFC, ExliteXC, and TV grappling.

Siniq
10/18/2008 10:32am,
Psyduck anyone?

Gabetuno
10/18/2008 10:34am,
Well, as the Ju Jitsu class that I'm attending is really picking up pace...

Just thought that I'd share my experiences of my first groundwork session with you awfully nice people.
Before I go any further - I want to set the scene about how I feel about 'rolling'...

Despite all of my MA experiences being ones strictly in the vertical plane, I've never thought of it as a waste of time. I do however think that in the context of self defense, it is really a worst case scenario and shouldn't really be considered the 'R34L D34DL3y' even if you are the king of every mat everywhere....

To be honest though, the one serious misconception that I had was that you could plan your way out of something like that fairly quickly - you know in the context of 'if they go for X - I go for Y, then N happens... I'll perform Z move and hey presto! ownership.'

To clarify anyone who watches any full contact MMA sport, and thinks that arm-locks can be adapted on resisting opponents when trying to keep them from doing the same to you, here's a small piece of advice....


Take up your YOUTUBE gained 'skills'...
Your hours of 'studying' form in MMA by watching it on pay per view (or whatever channel you can get it on)...
Your months of chatting to people in some forums about technique and going over it again and again..
The time spent discussing with friends about how to do what and when in the ring...AND THROW IT ALL OUT OF THE FUCKING WINDOW!

when you're a fucking noob - forget the planning like that as it just doesn't work that way at all... unless you've trained for a bloody long time so that kind of thing is much more instinctive (so like then you woun't be a noob yeah..?) .....

Ok?

Now having said that - here's a few things that I've learned from this new experience (and some will now express 'surprise' at some of these revelations) please be aware, this is from a rolling noob to other rolling noobs so, if you have learned this already and got those silly ideas of as mentioned before out of your head this will be old news for you...


Unless you are in a position that you know (NOT THINK, OR HOPE, OR WISH - get those optimistic BS ideas out right the **** now) gives you a real tactical advantage.... you will not have time or the skill to apply that cool looking wrist lock you got taught in your class a few weeks ago.
That cool looking wrist lock sucks when tried on a resisting opponent - don't bother with it, especially as your not just being attacked by one imb... they have bodyweight, grapples and grabs at their disposal also.

remaining calm and fluid when someone is trying their level best to pin you to the mat is again, really fucking optomistic - getting irrated with your lack of skills and abilites will only screw you up, learn from it and apply that learning for next time (PS if anyone can show me how to get mindset right now - please let me know).

Any weight advantage you have means utterly **** all, if you oppent has had more groundwork practice that you.
The mental and physical pressure of keeping up a grappling based assault is REALLY tiring - you might be able to lift really ****-house heavy weights using those machines in the gym... all that will not translate into you being able to do what you think you should be able to do with ground work.So, there it is - what I've learned so far.

So far - so good(ish), so there you go.

:XXhippylo



*Shrug*. Made sense to me. With regard to getting your "mindset" right, it's probably the most important thing to straighten out FIRST in submission grappling. If you panic when I'm on top of you, it's usually gonna put you right where I want you. I recommend starting with your breathing. Just remember to breath, nice and slow, in through the nose out through the mouth. Especially if you are training Gi, and a guy is on top and the air is hot and it FEELS like you can't breath, just remember, you can, and you aren't going to suffocate. In through the nose, out through the mouth. Once you master that, your BJJ progresses.

Siniq
10/18/2008 10:43am,
I recommend starting with your breathing. Just remember to breath, nice and slow, in through the nose out through the mouth...In through the nose, out through the mouth...

Mr myagi, Is that you?

Gabetuno
10/18/2008 10:45am,
Nope. I have big Americun Peenus.

http://leeinchina.com/images/uploads/chinpokomon.png

TheMarquis
10/18/2008 1:14pm,
IMO he is one of "those" people that thought he could attain skill from watching UFC, ExliteXC, and TV grappling.

Well sort of....
TBH, some of the stuff I've looked at on You-Tube did look good at the time. However, as I now realise (as opposed to only having a rough theoretical 'knowledge' so I merely suspected) much of what you see on there can look great and impressive - usually by applying a dose of 'compliance' into the mix...

and yeah, I'll admit that sometimes the 'must try that **** out' notion did pop into my mind.

On some of the techniques of I've looked at - the B.S. alarm does go off pretty loud.

If nothing else today, I've learned that my B.S.alarm needs some recalibration and that just because it looks good on YT doesn't mean **** all in the context of real groundwork...

kultist
10/18/2008 1:18pm,
STRANGELY COLORED LARGE FONTS IN ALLCAPS MAKE MY CORNEAS BLEED!!!

TheMarquis
10/18/2008 8:35pm,
STRANGELY COLORED LARGE FONTS IN ALLCAPS MAKE MY CORNEAS BLEED!!!


Then don't use them :qleapfrog

Torakaka
10/18/2008 8:49pm,
ahh my first roll... what a sweet sweet memory...

pauli
10/18/2008 8:52pm,
no hope in dope, kid s, no hope in dope.

Epicurus
10/19/2008 8:47pm,
While it's true that youtube videos are no substitute for rolling, it's been my experience that if you ARE taking a judo/bjj/whatever class and on top of that you pick one or two youtube techniques to try out (submissions 101 has some good BJJ stuff if you can get over the occasional JJJ junk), then the video techniques can be very useful. I've never learned a Von Flue choke n class, for instance, but thanks to studying it in video form I was able to apply a shitty one in rolling, and then next one will be better. And some day if someone who knows their **** teaches me a Von Flue choke, I'll already be most of the way there.

In other words, rolling and a real class are paramount, but I don't think that learning from videos or even fight footage is not potentially of great use.

maxthegeek1
10/19/2008 9:02pm,
While its true theres a lotta shitty stuff on youtube, and the decent stuff they show they still often do wrong, its still good to look at for inspiration for somone thats grappled for any significant matter of time. Or even for the noob. For example, as a noob, I wasn't all that sure about how to defend an armbar from top, which direction to go, how to stack them etc. The point is, get the idea if you must from youtube, then verify it with a more experianced grappler. Also, btw, don't do gi. I can't really speak out of experiance, because i've only ever done no-gi. but we get quite a lot of gi'ers come to our classes from afar, and often their skill level is relatively low compared to their belt rank, i suspect, because of their reliance on the gi in the past. please don't flame haha, just a conjecture from rolling