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Tonuzaba
10/08/2008 8:44am,
No.. I train at Gary Martin Kung Fu..

The point i was trying to make is that multiples does not always = Failure
as Fubar said.. Fubar was right just like you are - more attackers (although a lot depends on the situation, their skills, etc...) very likely mean fail. Not 100%, but pretty close.

Now about G.M. kung fu (although this might end up in another thread elsewhere), would you, as a student there, mind explaining these statements (emphasis in red by me) from the website:

http://www.garymartinkungfu.com.au/


Started in 1979, the Gary Martin Kung-fu Centre is widely recognised as one of the world's great martial arts schools. Guided by Gary Martin, an authentic Grand Master, we have continued to grow and excel to the degree that our School is now the largest single martial arts training School in Australia.
"Our reputation is such that visiting Masters, even from China, all agree that our students possess a rarely seen level of power and skill."
Undoubtedly, one of the reasons our students are so highly regarded is that Gary Martin has only one School. While many other teachers have sought to open branches all over the place, Gary has focused on developing one School with the clear goal of making it equal to or better than any other elite martial arts school anywhere in the world today.
The grades our members achieve are authentic, and world class. Interestingly, many of our students are actually higher ranked than a large percentage of teachers of other schools.



Head Instructor: Gary Martin


Commenced training in 1959
Commenced teaching in 1979
Achieved Master level in 1981
Achieved Grand Master level in 2006
Is the only Master who has had 7 of his students grade to Master level
Has an undefeated fight record


Oh boy, reading further it gets better and better:


How Effective?

VERY! The techniques taught by Gary Martin are so effective they are illegal in all forms of martial arts competition. In the 28 years of teaching, not one of our members has ever lost in a real confrontation. We do not train our members to compete in competitions, they are one on one with a ref to control the event. Real attacks are with knives, or groups of attackers and NO rules. This is what we train and prepare you for.

Hello,

search didn't bring Gary Martin's name up, so maybe this is the place to look for peoples views on his school:

http://www.garymartinkungfu.com.au/

The site contains quite a few pretty wild claims - does anybody know Gary Martin and his school?

Bullshido member kf fighter studies there, I asked him already. Waiting for answer, personal input from Gary Martin would be very welcome too...

kf fighter
10/08/2008 8:51am,
Fubar was right just like you are - more attackers (although a lot depends on the situation, their skills, etc...) very likely mean fail. Not 100%, but pretty close.

Now about G.M. kung fu (although this might end up in another thread elsewhere), would you, as a student there, mind explaining these statements (emphasis in red by me) from the website:

http://www.garymartinkungfu.com.au/





Oh boy, reading further it gets better and better:


whats your point?.

How well is your school going?

Tonuzaba
10/08/2008 8:55am,
whats your point?.
My point was to make you explain the basis of the highlighted claims as a person with first hand experience.

"Better than any other in the world" under what standards? Compared to what?

I am asking, because "undefeated fight record", "most techniques illegal in competition" and other statements are considered big-big red flags.

It is Fake
10/08/2008 8:55am,
whats your point?.



That your instructor is full of red flags.



How well is your school going?


Red Herring edit, that has nothing to do with the original question.

kf fighter
10/08/2008 9:05am,
My point was to make you explain the basis of the highlighted claims as a person with first hand experience.

"Better than any other in the world" under what standards? Compared to what?

I am asking, because "undefeated fight record", "most techniques illegal in competition" and other statements are considered big-big red flags.

ok i understand your point..

As a jouranalist im aware that you are good at picking things to pieces that dont have nay hard evidence behind them...

The best i can give you is

Gary believes in his art and his training so much that he is not afraid to make the large claims..

The art we train in focuses heavily on Kung Fu with street application....

I am not Gary Martin...


But i believe in the training and enjoy it so whatever...

p.s on the red herring... just took it to heart a little bit..

It is Fake
10/08/2008 9:18am,
In my training we do alot of multiple attacker drills..
Any more than 3 on 1 and your best shot is running away!...
But if unavoidable there are techniques to single out indivduals that require fast strikes that take down your opponent as quick as possible,
good footwork and striking vital targets (eyes,throat,groin,floating ribs,soalr plexus etc)

and one of our mulitiple rules is NEVER go to the ground...

Also most of the time there are only 1 or 2 that want to fight out of a group..
as Tonuzaba said dropping the biggest guy, or the "leader" will normally deter the group from having a go..

I have never been in a multiple for real and hopefully never have to but i suppose its just about giving yourself the best chance...
Take it easy people..
loving the forums


This post was in a Many vs 1 multiple attacker thread. When questioned about his lineage/school Gary Martin was mentioned.

On perusal of his website, by Tonu, many red flags were raised.
http://www.garymartinkungfu.com.au/index.html


Kung-fu Fighting Skills and Strategy Training
Our students can fight hard one on one, they can fight multiple opponents, they can ground fight and they can defeat opponents with knives. In other words, they are excellent all-round martial artists.This is obvious. Granted, it is marketing but, still.

http://www.garymartinkungfu.com.au/aboutgary.html

Is the only Master who has had 7 of his students grade to Master level

Has an undefeated fight record

This is rather obvious.



http://www.garymartinkungfu.com.au/interview.html



However, in the early 1980's Gary faced a new challenge. It was time to step from under his own teacher's wing and seek international approval through an independent Gold Sash grading. The timing couldn't have been worse. Now married with a baby daughter and a mortgage, Gary was working two jobs to stay above water and teaching his art three nights a week - and now he was to commence preparing for the hardest grading of his life. "We had to take out a bank loan to pay for the airfares and accommodation." Gary recalls, "I know that if I made one mistake it was back on the plane to fly home and try again a few years later. I had to pass." And pass he did.

Would love the name of this "International Gold Sash" Grading arena.
http://www.garymartinkungfu.com.au/ourarts.html


Hsing_i The 12 animals art, is particularly strong against larger opponents and provides knife- fighting skills for Gary's students.

paqua Is extremely strong against multiple attackers, and offers Gary's students access to all-out ground-fighting skills.
Tai Chi Its excellent footwork concepts provide Gary's students with exceptional mobility skills.


Let me add that all three of these are somewhat twisted up IMO.

soundless
10/08/2008 9:42am,
paqua Is extremely strong against multiple attackers, and offers Gary's students access to all-out ground-fighting skills.

I've heard the claims of this style for fighting multiple attackers, but all out ground fighting skills? lol wut?

Also looks to include typical "internal" stuff, including Chi !

Being an "internal kung-fu" school, Gary's students are trained extensively in
ch'i development, acupuncture, herbal medicine, self-hypnosis, Taoist philosophy,
positive mental imagery and full training in the arts' history, lineage, and of
course kung-fu weaponry.

they have an entire lecture room filled with green plastic chairs and a massage room to study these things...

kf fighter
10/08/2008 9:48am,
Im pretty sure you can take any school, any style and rip it to shreads..

If i could name the Gold sash Grading...
What gives that institution credit anyways??.
You should know yourself that regulation of MA, especially kung fu is almost impossible as there is no governing body...

Id love to back up the claims made on the website...

PLEASE remember:

I DID NOT MAKE THE CLAIMS..

So i dont feel obliged to elaborate on them..

Contact details are on the website. Im sure Gary would talk to you...

As stated above i enjoy the training and feel that it is practicle and works for me so no matter how flawed you think the webiste is, it what i do and im happy doing it..

It is Fake
10/08/2008 9:50am,
Im pretty sure you can take any school, any style and rip it to shreads..
No, you really can't if it has legit lineage.




If i could name the Gold sash Grading...
What gives that institution credit anyways??.

Exactly the issue.



You should know yourself that regulation of MA, especially kung fu is almost impossible as there is no governing body...

Yet, he is accredited?




Id love to back up the claims made on the website...

PLEASE remember:

I DID NOT MAKE THE CLAIMS..

So i dont feel obliged to elaborate on them..
No one is asking you to elaborate. The explanation, attributed to you, is why the thread was started.



Contact details are on the website. Im sure Gary would talk to you...

As stated above i enjoy the training and feel that it is practicle and works for me so no matter how flawed you think the webiste is, it what i do and im happy doing it..


Yes, that has already been done.

soundless
10/08/2008 9:53am,
Im pretty sure you can take any school, any style and rip it to shreads..

If i could name the Gold sash Grading...
What gives that institution credit anyways??.
You should know yourself that regulation of MA, especially kung fu is almost impossible as there is no governing body...

Id love to back up the claims made on the website...

PLEASE remember:

I DID NOT MAKE THE CLAIMS..

So i dont feel obliged to elaborate on them..

Contact details are on the website. Im sure Gary would talk to you...

As stated above i enjoy the training and feel that it is practicle and works for me so no matter how flawed you think the webiste is, it what i do and im happy doing it..

since we have you here, would you care to help me out?
could you perhaps explain the hsingi ground fighting that was mentioned?
describe it for me maybe? it seems you guys have a concrete floor in the pictures and hsingi isn't really known for ground fighting... do you do throws? actually work on the ground such as in grappling styles? or is it more like kempo where you get your opponent to the ground and use a "finishing" move on him?

kf fighter
10/08/2008 9:58am,
since we have you here, would you care to help me out?
could you perhaps explain the hsingi ground fighting that was mentioned?
describe it for me maybe? it seems you guys have a concrete floor in the pictures and hsingi isn't really known for ground fighting... do you do throws? actually work on the ground such as in grappling styles? or is it more like kempo where you get your opponent to the ground and use a "finishing" move on him?

By the term "all out" just means anything goes..
We learn not to be on the ground.... so if we find ourselves on the gorund it is "all out" to get back onto our feet..
thats all..

We do leg sweeps, basic takedowns and finish with knockout strikes..

It is Fake
10/08/2008 9:59am,
since we have you here, would you care to help me out?
could you perhaps explain the hsingi ground fighting that was mentioned?
describe it for me maybe? it seems you guys have a concrete floor in the pictures and hsingi isn't really known for ground fighting... do you do throws? actually work on the ground such as in grappling styles? or is it more like kempo where you get your opponent to the ground and use a "finishing" move on him?
Please think carefully if you answer these questions. The explanations I quoted above are thoroughly messed up.

soundless
10/08/2008 10:00am,
By the term "all out" just means anything goes..
We learn not to be on the ground.... so if we find ourselves on the gorund it is "all out" to get back onto our feet..
thats all..

We do leg sweeps, basic takedowns and finish with knockout strikes..

do you do any submissions on the ground?
what is a basic technique of yours for getting off the ground and back to standing should you be taken down?

soundless
10/08/2008 10:01am,
A minute to late It IS Fake, he answered.. sort of. look above

kf fighter
10/08/2008 10:07am,
It depends where the attacker is coming from or where they are on top of you, side mount etc....

Mainly involves strikes to the eyes and throat and groin.. then rolling the attacker off you or using their head/neck and twising for leverage...

We also learn basic submissions: Guillotine, triangle and rear naked, an a couple of arm locks but nothing to in depth on grappling..

It is Fake
10/08/2008 10:13am,
It depends where the attacker is coming from or where they are on top of you, side mount etc....

Mainly involves strikes to the eyes and throat and groin.. then rolling the attacker off you or using their head/neck and twising for leverage...

We also learn basic submissions: Guillotine, triangle and rear naked, an a couple of arm locks but nothing to in depth on grappling..
Please tell me these aren't on the ground.