PDA

View Full Version : The Commando Neckbreak and other Fun Things



Pages : [1] 2 3

nightowl
5/25/2008 10:54pm,
BS or not? And yes, this is from a video game but pulling it from a movie isn't an example from real life either (and I couldn't find any clips).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=[yt]68jbeEwpNg8

So yeah, I was at judo the other day hanging out after class with some guys and messing around with some newaza. One guy from Poland who comes all the time is really good...really good. He's got 28 years in martial arts from kickboxing to 'sport jujutsu' (full contact JJJ I think...sometimes his english is a bit off), No gi competitions, and a strange devotion to Akijujutsu and Aikido (he is also a teacher of physical education). He wanted to start from ground zero with judo so he is with us greenhorns, however he easily can roll with 2nd Dans and anyone else he usually can handle no problem.

Anyhow all of us were talking about kneebars, achilies locks, and other moves that were taken out of judo but are still allowed (most of the time) in BJJ and SAMBO. Now, he sometimes goes the street vs sport comparison (the aikido I'm sure), but this time he went on a tanget about kansetsuwaza (joint locks) that nobody allows since they are too dangerous. Specifically neck locks. He carefully demonstrated 2.


http://judoinfo.com/images/kawaishi_files/kubi3.gif

One was tatehigishi (pictured), the other was that rear neck snap that you always see in the movies that instantly kills anyone. My question is this: are these really just BS? While some of the newaza breaks look plausible (http://judoinfo.com/kubiwaza.htm), the standing ones look like they could tourque your neck but probably not kill or paralyze anyone. Is this just another one of those 2 d33dlY moves? Or are there jujutsu techniques that are the real deadly?

Kintanon
5/25/2008 10:59pm,
I've been guillotined in ways that felt like a person of sufficient strength and sufficient intent could have broken my neck. I have a fairly long neck though, and since no one has ever had their neck broken by a guillotine attempt despite the many many many hundreds of guillotines than I'm sure are attempted every day I think we can safely say it's not going to happen unless someone really goes to town with the intent to break the neck. Which means the move is not "Too Deadly" but like any other tech can be practiced with varying degrees of force.

nightowl
5/25/2008 11:07pm,
I know some people are down on the can openers since it is a neck crank. Personally I hate it when people do it since it takes up time and is annoying, however all it has ever done is make my neck crack (like craking your knuckles) and otherwise it isn't so bad.

Blue Negation
5/25/2008 11:09pm,
The judo technique pictured is not a guillotine. The force is rotational and extending, not contracting and slightly extending. It is a genuine neck crank - I'm not sure if two similarly sized/strong individuals could use it to incur a broken neck, but it hurts enough to force a tap. You can do it from sprawl/front headlock position (where uke's own body weight holds them against the torque) or from guard (where you lock their hips to prevent them from turning to alleviate the neck torque).

It's similar to the neck crank Sakuraba used in his last fight from back control, really.


The commando neck crank I have no idea about.

nightowl
5/25/2008 11:10pm,
The judo technique pictured is not a guillotine. The force is rotational and extending, not contracting and slightly extending. It is a genuine neck crank - I'm not sure if two similarly sized/strong individuals could use it to incur a broken neck, but it hurts enough to force a tap. You can do it from sprawl/front headlock position (where uke's own body weight holds them against the torque) or from guard (where you lock their hips to prevent them from turning to alleviate the neck torque).

It's similar to the neck crank Sakuraba used in his last fight from back control, really.


The commando neck crank I have no idea about.

Correct, the pic doesn't show it well but it is desribed in comparison to the choke on the website.

Kentucky Fried Chokin
5/25/2008 11:11pm,
I've never found can openers to be that useful either. They're so easy to counter, but apparently if you're good enough you can make them work (and cause some real trouble as well). Here's what I mean:
Dailymotion - Jeff Monson vs. Pe De Pano Cruz, een video van mma-tv. grappling, arnolds, bjj, Jeff, [email protected]@[email protected]@http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/[email protected]@[email protected]@x1426h (http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/search/monson/video/x1426h_jeff-monson-vs-pe-de-pano-cruz_sport)

Deadmeat
5/25/2008 11:16pm,
According to the physiotherapist at my work (who happens to be a former Judoka) despite the common belief, "snapping the neck" is a virtual impossibility from the application of this type of force.

What actually happens if you overcrank those sorts of technique is more likely to be a dislocation, and potential damage to the spinal cord, which could result in paralysis (and I suppose at an extreme, death).

In regards to breaking/snapping of the neck, it is far more common as a result of falling on one's head with the neck twisted. It requires a significant, sharp, heavy impact.

nightowl
5/25/2008 11:21pm,
According to the physiotherapist at my work (who happens to be a former Judoka) despite the common belief, "snapping the neck" is a virtual impossibility from the application of this type of force.

What actually happens if you overcrank those sorts of technique is more likely to be a dislocation, and potential damage to the spinal cord, which could result in paralysis (and I suppose at an extreme, death).

In regards to breaking/snapping of the neck, it is far more common as a result of falling on one's head with the neck twisted. It requires a significant, sharp, heavy impact.
Like I said, from what he is showedand demonstrated (on me), some of it would tourque your neck real bad (and have the possibility of serious injury), but wouldn't be too easy to pull off with the intent of killing someone as is often portrayed.

jdinca
5/25/2008 11:21pm,
According to the physiotherapist at my work (who happens to be a former Judoka) despite the common belief, "snapping the neck" is a virtual impossibility from the application of this type of force.

What actually happens if you overcrank those sorts of technique is more likely to be a dislocation, and potential damage to the spinal cord, which could result in paralysis (and I suppose at an extreme, death).

In regards to breaking/snapping of the neck, it is far more common as a result of falling on one's head with the neck twisted. It requires a significant, sharp, heavy impact.

Pretty accurate. Breaking vertabrae is not easy. Killing someone doesn't require it though. Torquing the head enough to cause dislocations is also enough to do serious damage to the spinal cord and brain stem.

Hooded Justice
5/26/2008 12:22am,
I think wether it kills or not is a bit irelevant. If you are trying to use this in a "street" fight, I'd think that paralyzing a person would fall under the "Satesfactory" category of effects related to the technique usage.

DerAuslander
5/26/2008 12:42am,
It could also very easily fall under the "excessive force" category depending where you live.

nightowl
5/26/2008 12:43am,
It could also very easily fall under the "excessive force" category depending where you live.
As in anywhere outside of Texas.

I am still skeptical that severe damage could be imparted by the two moves without considerable effort (particularly the commando kill which is constantly shown in movies) but I'm not about to test that out. You;d have to try it in a lab setting or consult with someone very versed in the human body.

Kid Miracleman
5/26/2008 12:47am,
Is the "Commando Neckbreak" similar to the "Special Forces Kick?"

colonelpong2
5/26/2008 2:26am,
Actually I read a book once that detailed a number of neck breaks. From memory, it included the following:

-Sitting on opponents chest and pulling his head forward until his neck snaps.
-Striking under the jaw on a 45 degree angle, causing the neck to snap instantly.
- Grabbing a giuy by the heels and picking him up suddenly so that his head hiuts the ground first, thus snapping the neck.
-Performing an RNC, but extending the fingers at the same time which will instantly break the neck in several places.
- Striking the back of the neck with a sidekick. Instant snappage.

Now im sure the author was a reputable expert. He must have been. According to the blurb he was one of the greatest masters of martial arts in the world.
He is also A REAL NINJA!!!!! He had a mask in the pictures and everything! What was his name again? Thats right! Grand Master Ashida Kim!

I thought that book was great back when I was thirteen. Then I turned fourteen and threw it away.

Deadmeat
5/26/2008 2:55am,
- Grabbing a giuy by the heels and picking him up suddenly so that his head hiuts the ground first, thus snapping the neck.

the "real" commando neckbreak:
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e211/Istok/realcommandoneckbreak.jpg
(http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:hemK7uPRx44qWM:http://www.chairforce.com/fit2sit/combat-tactics/rdl-homepage-files/Fig7-6.gif)

danniboi07
5/26/2008 3:05am,
After watching this vid...I started doubting if the neck actually COULD be snapped in a choke....

YouTube - Brutal Guillotine Choke (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5Gmn3YDxJo)