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Veridian
11/21/2003 3:22am,
I have taken Shorin Ryu primarily over the years, but back when I was a green belt I decided I wanted to try something different, so I signed up for six months of the martial sport of Tae-Kwon-Do.

The instructor tried to push everyone into tournaments. At these tournaments (against other TKD schools), whichever school had the most people place the highest would win, and the school itself would get one trophy. So the instructor would tell us that with the more who entered the better our chances were. I think it was just a tactic so every school could get as many people to enter (and pay registration fees)

At these tournaments the participant would get an extra point if his/her feet were not touching the ground. These would involve some jump kicks, but a lot of the time people would simply come in with at regular punch and jump their feet off the ground a little ways. Boy did they look stupid doing it too. I didn't enter by they way, just watched and silently laughed.

And finally during classes they tried to teach me to NOT drive my hips when punching, but rather they went up on the balls of their feet (almost like standing on your tippy-toes), and dropped back down to flat footed as they released the punch (they claimed this gave the punch it's power, which I could never understand)

When asking the sensei how punching from the shoulder could possibly generate as much power as punching from the hip he with respond that "at higher ranks the students are taught to generate a sign wave"

No matter how much me (and some other white belts) asked, he wouldn't tell us what is was. At times he would say it was too devastating to teach beginners. Other times he would say that we aren't ready to comprehend it or some BS like that. It was like he was talking down to us.

Now two questions

1. What is a "sign wave"? (For any TKD students who may be listening.

2. Are the type of things I have described common to TKD schools, or this one the exception? (BTW They claimed to belong to the "International TKD Federation")

P.S. (I am not saying all TKD schools are bad, please don't take this as an attack on the style, I am only curious)

Veridian
11/21/2003 3:28am,
The bright part about my experience, is that it showed me how much better my old school was (so I went back), this was when I learned not all schools are created equal.

This particular TKD school was a McDojo (although there probably is a lot good ones out there too, I just chose wrong)

Well, live and learn

Veridian
11/21/2003 3:32am,
How does up and down movement generate forward power?

When asked this, the instuctor would say that a sine wave is very complicated and powerful, and he couldn't tell us about it.

It must be more complicated, because I don't understand

Veridian
11/21/2003 3:34am,
Is the WTF better than the ITF?

And how are they different?

Veridian
11/21/2003 3:37am,
Also I always thought that raising up before you strike telegraphs the technique IMHO anyways

But hopefully there will be some ITF person mulling around who can enlighten me then (on the whole generating power issue)

MrMcFu
11/21/2003 3:49am,
Oh Os, you can't be serious - the WTF is generally bullshit free? Rewarding the gheyness of the double kick with two points? I think you are a not-so-secret TKD nutrider :)

Is that ITF SINE punch anything like the Bruce Lee falling step that I learned in WT?

Veridian
11/21/2003 3:55am,
Hmmmm, maybe my teacher was just BS-ing us about who knows what.

That is kinda funny that you used the acronym WTF for two different purposes. (unless I misunderstood you)

I guess the the ITF could change it's name to the WTF, it would be short for "WHAT THE F**K?!!!", which would be what people say when they see the techniques. (I know it's what I said anyway)

Veridian
11/21/2003 3:57am,
I wouldn't know MrMcFu? I don't know what either of them are really

Veridian
11/21/2003 3:58am,
What is WT? There are so many acronyms thrown around I don't know what they all mean

Veridian
11/21/2003 4:10am,
I didn't even know that there were two different TKD federations. Is there a lot of in fighting, are they rivals, do they hate each other?

JKDChick
11/21/2003 5:37am,
That "sine wave" thing? That's TOTAL BULLSHIT.

Here is a definition of a sine wave: A periodic oscillation. The fundamental waveform from which other waveforms may be generated by combinations of various group of harmonics. The voltage and current waveforms produced from the power company generators (alternators) are basic sine waves.

Or: A waveform of a single constant frequency and amplitude that continues for all time.

Now, how could that apply to punching?

drunkenj
11/21/2003 7:21am,
it doesn't just typical tkd bullshit

rainfall
11/21/2003 7:41am,
sine wave motion is primarily bullshido. utter bullshido. it is the direct creation of a guy called choi chong hi, who founded the itf tkd group. The idea is that they raise up and let the resulting downward motion add the acceleration of gravity to "add power". Unfortunately, it seems that upon closer inspection the extra power generated is downward (some simple vector calculations and you get the new direction of your punch's force...it goes the wrong way, at least, not the most efficient way). You could get much more power by simply using your legs to lunge forward directly. Strategically, sine wave is bullshido as well. It raises your bodyweight to a position that is easy to offbalance, telegraphs your attack, as well as is extremely slow. Interstingly enough, this "sine wave" bullshido is not done by all ITF schools. It was over the top even for TKD I guess...

Now, if your attack is *straight downward*, the sine wave will add useful power. Like at breaking contests. As a side note though, if you attack straight downward, just jump in the air. Or better yet, do like pro wrestling, get up on the ropes, and jump 12 ft in the air. ooh, and do flips. That will generate much more force than sine wave bullshido.

I think it might be similar to the falling step, except with an extra lift at the beginning. The big difference though is that the falling step is probably only used in a couple of situations, for a very specific purpose. Sine wave bullshido seems general purpose, or maybe, general useless. Your call.

TKD is factioned into far more federations than we could probably ever list. The two largest are the ITF and WTF. All attempt to deride and defame one another incessantly. All onlookers just laugh at the spectacle.

rmclain
11/21/2003 8:09am,
I'm not involved with the ITF, but watched their CD_ROM set on their system. They mentioned the "sine wave" theory and demonstrated it during their techniques and forms.

IMO, it is BS. Anyone with a class in Physics 101 or analytic geometry can prove why. But, with common sense you can simply see why.

This must have been a recent (since the 1970's) addition to Choi's attempt to make a uniqueness to his "style" of taekwondo. His 1965 book doesn't mention sine wave at all.

R. Mclain

KageReaper
11/21/2003 9:05am,
Originally posted by rainfall
TKD is factioned into far more federations than we could probably ever list. The two largest are the ITF and WTF. All attempt to deride and defame one another incessantly. All onlookers just laugh at the spectacle.

Yes..cause we know that most of them are fucking jokes anyway. TKD, haha Damn riverdancers

Greg
11/21/2003 9:32am,
Sine wave? Maybe it’s a really poor interpretation/adaptation of the “fa-jing” concept?