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Matt W.
3/28/2008 1:05pm,
http://www.spokanemartialarts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=181


Here's an exercise, though not highly recommended for the feint of heart, to test the validity of Cage Fighting in a near real situation. ...Okay, so here is the exercise. Hopefully you've picked a good mosh pit, good size, good amount of free-flowing aggression - now, go to the middle. ...Try taking someone down in there, you'll likely get trampled.


I think he's got us folks. Obviously, the non-mosh pit effectiveness of groundfighting means we're all wasting our time!

I responded with...


...congratulations on artificially contriving a situation where the double leg takedown would be less than ideal! Kudos!

He then moved on to a better test of "cage fighting" to prove it's inneffectiveness.


so you're saying that because of a Cage Fighters' experience, they would be able to handle controlling a riot in, say, a prison situation on the same level as yourself?

I agree. So, to show my agreement, I said...


Hey, you know what else "cage fighting" doesn't do a good job of preparing you for? Laying down supressing fire and calling for tactical air strikes! Yeah, those sport fighters suck at that stuff.

Obviously, that's game set and match to him. But, something got a little sandy for him, because he last came back with this...


Okay, Matt W., now you're taking it way out of context into the land of the rediculous.
Now you're just being insulting

So, what do you think? Was I too hard on him?

Kentucky Fried Chokin
3/28/2008 1:13pm,
Not hard enough. Am I mistaken or can't you throw people/take them down, without going down yourself?

Edit: So this guy is also in Spokane?

Lu Tze
3/28/2008 1:13pm,
Judo keeps all the deadly stuff, like calling in air strikes, in the kata.

Kentucky Fried Chokin
3/28/2008 1:15pm,
Did he have a karate anwser for this 'mosh pit senario'?

ChickenBeakFist
3/28/2008 1:16pm,
I don't get it. Is he arguing that his BS style of Karate (WTF Sanwa Kai Karate Jutsu?) DOES prepare you for fighting in a mosh pit?

Matt W.
3/28/2008 1:18pm,
Yes, he's in Spokane.

Lu, I lolled.

Gbemi
3/28/2008 1:20pm,
Too hard. Uh, no. He is encouraging people to do start taking people down for no reason. Hundreds of people, dancing, probably drinking, and we are to test skills by what, attacking them? WTF???? He's an idiot.

The fact that he says, "you'll probably get trampled" says it all. What criteria is set forward that would show that one indeed has skill? I guess the more teeth you have when the night is over, the more skilled you obviously are.

Matt W.
3/28/2008 1:21pm,
Truthfully, I'm not quite sure what he's arguing, other than the typical... "grappling doesn't work in the streets, yo!" The fact that he is conflating grappling with groundfighintg, "cage fighting" (ugh) with grappling, and other sport fighting with "cage fighting" doesn't help.

edtang
3/28/2008 1:24pm,
That's the problem with the thread: his initial premise isn't particularly well formed or thought through.

It is Fake
3/28/2008 1:25pm,
Firstly, to Matt. I appreciate your input, so you're saying that because of a Cage Fighters' experience, they would be able to handle controlling a riot in, say, a prison situation on the same level as yourself?Honestly, I don't know how you stand it?

WTF does a riot, in a Prison, have to do with a SD situation that he would be trained for in the first place.

The Question
3/28/2008 1:27pm,
Matt W., why do you do this to yourself? Why?

You should go bitch slap him some more.

ChickenBeakFist
3/28/2008 1:30pm,
I trained for the mosh range of combat under this guy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HbFrM4Lm18

DerAuslander
3/28/2008 1:39pm,
BJJ doesn't work in mosh pits because of the mosh code.

"When someone goes down, you pick them back up."

You don't trample them.

The OP hasn't been in many pits.

Kintanon
3/28/2008 1:53pm,
Yeah, every mosh pit I've been in if someone goes down there's an immediate circle of linked arms around them to give them space and at least two people helping them up. You could never keep a fight on the ground in a mosh pit...

Matt W.
3/28/2008 1:56pm,
lol I'm going to quote you guys over there, Kint and Errant, if you don't mind.

I see I correctly have this guy pegged.

Ryno
3/28/2008 2:06pm,
So going into the middle of the pit and trading strikes with someone while his buddies circle up behind you would be any better?

Seriously, few things work really well when you're in the middle of a mosh pit or gang fight other than tossing people down quickly, or using football tactics and rushing out of the melee, driving your opponent out with you. I've done that before when working a max security juvenile institution. I used a combination of football and judo-style tactics to just drive my way out of the fight area, tossing/slamming guys once I was clear. You would not want to stand in the middle of that thing and try trading blows just as much as you wouldn't want to pull guard. You absolutely will get hit in the back of the head.

And even with my love of striking arts, slamming someone down on a non-padded surface takes the fight out of them far faster than almost any type of strike. And in a really chaotic multiple-opponent exchange, it's probably a lot safer and more likely that you'll be able to grab someone and throw them than it is to land a clean punch that'll actually put them down.

Takedowns for the win. Just as in mma, judo, football, or whatever.