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Matt W.
1/06/2008 12:51pm,
Hate to break it to you, kid, but the silat episode was a joke. They didn't even fight. They did a "test" where, though there was contact, all the attacks and defenses were prearranged. In short, it sucked and silat came out of it looking like everything you read about here that is wrong with the MA.

glad2bhere
1/06/2008 1:36pm,
I thought it was a pretty good episode, but the history bit hurt me almost as much as the "history" the World Tang Soo Do Association puts in their little manual. (First martial arts manual written in 1790 my ass.)

I know breaking doesn't have a lot of relation to fighting ability, but I did find the acrobatics and speed showcased by some of those demonstrations impressive.

And hey, Bill actually got off that taekkyon back kick they taught him. I'm impressed that he worked so hard at bringing in the stuff he learned.


Thank you very much: that was exactly the theme of my last post. This is a pretty good indication of how poorly informed Koreans are of their own traditions. Just for the record.

1.) The MYTBTJ (publ 1795) was NOT a manual. It is, essentially, a catalogue of the items the military carried at the time and what the corvee troops needed to be familar with as far as handling these items. Unless a person knows the material itself (IE. How does one actually perform the method known as "Pat High (on the) Horse" and how is it applied in combat?) the catalogue is actually of very little help.

2.) AS a catalogue the items and the methods only reflect a classical approach to battlefield activities. Note that all projective weapons such as slings and bows are missing as are any "hot" weapons such as those which were carried by the Three Armies albeit severely outdated compared to other nations.

3.) Text under examination was preceeded by two other "manuals", the MUYE SHINBO (1759) and the MUYE JEBO (See: Han Kyo) which was translated in the early 17th century.

4.) Further, I won't bore people with the long list of refences to be found in the latest translation of the MYTBTJ, of the series of contributions, treatises, and institutions that were provided for by the Korean Court through the king beginning in the 14th Century.

And, if I may say, if those folks who keep mindlessly masturbating the same old tired inaccuracies decade after decade would be, in practice, half as respectful of their culture as they pretend, to the World, that they are, maybe a "nobody" from the American Midwest wouldn't have to correct these authorities!! (Not that I have any issues about any of this, right?--- Sheesh!! :violent1: )

Best Wishes,

Bruce

ZenOfAnger
1/07/2008 10:14pm,
Just to agree with glad2behere that many Koreans know very little about their history.
It seems that anyhting pre1945 in korea is hard to verify as actual history. Not sure if this is true, but I have heard that the South Korean government likes to fabricate stories about the history of their martail arts as a result that the majority doesn't know a thing . Can anybody verify this? Not to get into governmental conspericies too much though.

glad2bhere
1/08/2008 9:59am,
Since being mandated in the Korean Educational system in the 1930-s, Japanese practices have always had the edge, or "inside track", with the government for the last 60 years. This includes the establishment of the two oversight agencies established by the Korean government in the 1950-s for TKD and HKD respectively. I don't see where the older/traditional practices of the Korean culture have ever had much of a chance since 1907.

Beginning in 1904 with the introduction of the BUTOKUKAI-CHOSON, all Koreans have heard is how their traditions are inferior, died-out long ago and have no place in a modern society. Trading on the "antiquated nature" of Korean practices, modern agencies have seemed to have hoped that these older activities would die-out by attrition in favor of the glitzier modern martial sports. In this way, practitioners of traditional arts have been "shamed" into silence and isolation by the larger and well-funded government agencies and their civilian counterparts. Afterall, in a capitalist society, which way are people going to swing--- with the monied interests and their Olympic asperasions, or with locating, cataloguing and preserving historic practices of some obscure village teacher?

Best Wishes,

Bruce

ZenOfAnger
1/08/2008 9:36pm,
Thanks for summing that up. No more questions on that subject then.