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The Shade
12/11/2007 10:38pm,
What's the point in bashing other peoples styles? I can see a review of a style, with constructive criticism, but half of what I see on this sight isn't b.s. fighting, but style discrimination. I just don't get the point. Is your Sifu/Sensei/Guru going to give you brownie points for saying someone's style is a peice of ****?

TKDBot
12/11/2007 10:40pm,
Welcome to Bullshido, the best Martial Arts forum on the entire Internet, The Shade. Seriously, you won't regret your choice to join us. We're a great bunch of folks, except for Hannibal. And Sirc. And TaiGip. And MMA Kid. And... well, you get the point.

Tanhalen21
12/11/2007 10:43pm,
Well, when you use a choreographed demonstration to prove the effectiveness of your martial art, you can't expect to illicit a positive response. This is probably what you are experiencing. Members of Bullshido rely on empirical evidence to draw conclusions.

The Question
12/11/2007 10:51pm,
What's the point in bashing other peoples styles? I can see a review of a style, with constructive criticism, but half of what I see on this sight isn't b.s. fighting, but style discrimination. I just don't get the point. Is your Sifu/Sensei/Guru going to give you brownie points for saying someone's style is a peice of ****?

The point is to wake up people like me and many others who have been mired in the muck that is useless TMA.

For us, who dwelled in the darkness, they are the guiding light. And so on.

Bahuyuddha
12/12/2007 7:42pm,
The point is to wake up people like me and many others who have been mired in the muck that is useless TMA.

For us, who dwelled in the darkness, they are the guiding light. And so on.
Specifically, it's hard to rate different martial arts styles and schools objectively before you know anything about them. This site has helped me and many other people realize that the way we have been training (possibly for many years) has not been preparing us in any way to fight. Bullshido has also provided some information on how to identify schools that do train effective fighting skills.

Sometimes people here take a bit of a confrontational approach, but I think that is just part of the culture here. Some people find it more offensive that a school would teach something ineffective (or use ineffective training methods), charge money for it, and advertise it as a way to learn how to fight. Personally I prefer a less confrontational approach because I think it conveys impartiality and objectivity, and I find that more people are convinced when presented with an argument that way. But so far I haven't found any other site that has as clear a purpose and is as thorough as Bullshido.net. Gotta take the bad with the good, I guess.

Petter
12/12/2007 8:28pm,
Having someone tell you that what you're doing is bullshit, and presenting you with arguments for it, should at the very least make you take a close look at what you are doing. Anything less and you're being dishonest with yourself.

I'm the sort of person who loves being right. Unfortunately, when I'm wrong about something, I'll never be right about it unless someone tells me I'm talking nonsense.

Bahuyuddha
12/13/2007 1:39am,
Having someone tell you that what you're doing is bullshit, and presenting you with arguments for it, should at the very least make you take a close look at what you are doing. Anything less and you're being dishonest with yourself.

I'm the sort of person who loves being right. Unfortunately, when I'm wrong about something, I'll never be right about it unless someone tells me I'm talking nonsense.
Yeah, but when explaining how someone's martial art sucks in an insulting or at least extremely blunt way (not uncommon here), most people tend to see the insult, not the content of the explanation. Ideally everyone would be able to separate their feelings from the way a criticism is delivered, but it's naive to assume that most people can do this. If you are actually concerned with convincing people of something, rather than just being right, then my experience has been that being polite about it has a lot more success.

*EDIT*
Hahaha, it's funny how in spite of what I was trying to say about being polite, I implicitly called Petter naive. Apologies Petter, no offense was intended. And I don't think you're naive. Just maybe a bit blunt.
:XXphyhsas

Petter
12/13/2007 1:45am,
But it does work. There are lots of people here who have had their minds changed, to a greater or smaller degree, by the rhetoric on this site, harsh though it may be. If you would like to set up a forum to gently persuade people, go right ahead! Bullshido does not appear to be it. It's open and largely unmoderated, with the benefits of promoting free expression and straightforwardness over political correctness; it has the drawback of offending those people who haven't yet grown a thick enough skin to swallow an argument that contains the word '****' (or tune out the background noise).

Bahuyuddha
12/13/2007 1:55am,
But it does work. There are lots of people here who have had their minds changed, to a greater or smaller degree, by the rhetoric on this site, harsh though it may be. If you would like to set up a forum to gently persuade people, go right ahead! Bullshido does not appear to be it. It's open and largely unmoderated, with the benefits of promoting free expression and straightforwardness over political correctness; it has the drawback of offending those people who haven't yet grown a thick enough skin to swallow an argument that contains the word '****' (or tune out the background noise).

I agree that one should have a "thick enough skin" to be able to take honest criticism. I was just saying that most people don't naturally have that. And I think that in life in general (not just on Bullshido), being unnecessarily blunt isn't, well, neccessary. I don't mean walking on eggshells every time you have to point out that someone is wrong. I just mean starting out with "**** you n00b" isn't always productive. You say that many people eventually do grow a thick skin and become informed on Bullshido, but we don't have any numbers on how many people are turned away from here by the atmosphere, and driven back into forms LARPing forums that comfort them in their delusions. I'm just calling into question the effectiveness of being intentionally rude. Far be it from me to try to change Bullshido to be a more friendly place. That would be a fruitless effort, if I've ever heard of one. I have already admitted its value to the martial arts world.

Petter
12/13/2007 1:58am,
Hahaha, it's funny how in spite of what I was trying to say about being polite, I implicitly called Petter naive. Apologies Petter, no offense was intended. And I don't think you're naive. Just maybe a bit blunt.
Happily, I have a thick enough skin to take insults -- I'm one of the examples of people who came to Bullshido and had their minds changed. Besides, I'm not na´ve enough to think that Bullshido reaches everyone (of course it doesn't), and as for being blunt...aw, shucks.

jnp
12/13/2007 2:08am,
What's the point in bashing other peoples styles? I can see a review of a style, with constructive criticism, but half of what I see on this sight isn't b.s. fighting, but style discrimination. I just don't get the point. Is your Sifu/Sensei/Guru going to give you brownie points for saying someone's style is a peice of ****?
The point is, false confidence in your LARPtastic (the impersonal you in this instance) martial art can get you injured, maimed or even dead. Consequently, I hope you'll forgive us if we occasionally lapse into rudeness while trying to get our point across to the uneducated.

However, some of us are assholes, plain and simple. I don't see anything wrong with that myself.

Merck
12/13/2007 2:11am,
To be totally honest, I used to be very big into traditional martial arts. It was guys like this that saved me from dancing around in a gi thinking I was a badass. I thank them for being rude enough that I paid attention.

Bahuyuddha
12/13/2007 2:12am,
Happily, I have a thick enough skin to take insults -- I'm one of the examples of people who came to Bullshido and had their minds changed. Besides, I'm not na´ve enough to think that Bullshido reaches everyone (of course it doesn't), and as for being blunt...aw, shucks.

Well woop-dee-doo, thick-skin boy. Wanna fucking medal? *




Ok, in all seriousness, admittedly my skin has thickened quite a bit since I've been here also (supporting what you're saying), but if I hadn't had the interest in following a particular thread, I might have left after the first few whacks with the clue stick and run back to my warm friendly Kung Fu forum friends. I think there is at least one (admittedly pitiful) forum dedicated to hating on Bullshido. But there are many forums with members who complain about the harshness of Bullshido, who only see the insults and are unable to see the value of the content. I only wonder if some of them could be turned to the dark side if it wasn't so harsh.








* That was a joke, get it? You can take insults, right?

Bahuyuddha
12/13/2007 2:13am,
The point is, false confidence in your LARPtastic (the impersonal you in this instance) martial art can get you injured, maimed or even dead. Consequently, I hope you'll forgive us if we occasionally lapse into rudeness while trying to get our point across to the uneducated.

However, some of us are assholes, plain and simple. I don't see anything wrong with that myself.
I'm not insulted by your (the impersonal "you") rudeness in the slightest. My argument is purely a pragmatic one. Could we reach more people, and thus save more people from potential harm? (to use your argument)

Bahuyuddha
12/13/2007 2:20am,
To be totally honest, I used to be very big into traditional martial arts. It was guys like this that saved me from dancing around in a gi thinking I was a badass. I thank them for being rude enough that I paid attention.
I'm not talking about individual cases. Obviously some people are helped by coming here. The number of active Bullshido members that support its purpose is evidence of that. I don't know the numbers. Maybe the forms LARPer forum members who flee Bullshido represent only a tiny fraction of the population, and most people end up seeing the light. It would be interesting to know that (but probably pretty hard to measure).

Purpleskunk
12/13/2007 3:02am,
Well to get on topic, i dont personally go and "bash" other martial arts but i do like to see what people have to say about them. i have a friend who does karate at this place http://www.onemartialarts.com/ they have ads all over the malls. apparently hes a first degree black belt and his lil bro a black belt, and his sister is some kind of belt.. i dont say anything to him and i just wonder when hes gonna "go to the dark side". there was this short chunky freshman talking to another freshman who looks like hes in 3rd grade, about savat and what not! right after the episode on human weapon, and this other kid following some girl in a crowded hallway saying YOU WANNA GRAPPLE?! i just keep to myself in these kinda stuff.