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Ronin
10/24/2003 9:23am,
A friend of mine at a university here in Toronto (York), is thinking about conducting this test:
STUDY OF
“STRIKING POWER”

OBJECTIVE: TO ANALYSE AND COMPARE THE SPEED AND POWER OF VARIOUS STRIKES BY BOXERS AND MARTIAL ARTIST.

GOAL: TO SEE WHICH TYPE OF TRAINING PRODUCES, CONSISTENTLY, GREATER STRIKING POWER. COMPARATIVE ANALYSIS OF HEIGHT, WEIGHT AND REACH FACTORS.

PROCEDURE (SIMPLIFIED): SUBJECTS WILL BE TESTED IN THE FOLLOWING MATTER:
TO TEST FOR SPEED: SUBJECT WILL BE VIDEO TAPED STRIKING AND THE FRAMES PER SECOND WILL BE USED TO CALCULATE SPEED.
TO TEST FOR FORCE: SUBJECT WILL HIT FORCE MEASURING DEVICE.

TEST SUBJECT PROFILES:
50 BOXERS: 25 OVER 200LBS AND 25 UNDER 200 LBS
50 “HARD STYLE” MARTIAL ARTIST: 25 OVER 200 & 25 UNDER 200
50 “SOFT STYLE” MARTIAL ARTIST: 25 OVER 200 & 25 UNDER 200

NOTE: REASON FOR VARIETY IN THE MARTIAL ARTIST PROFILE:
MARTIAL ARTS STRIKING IS DIVIDED INTO TWO MAIN CATEGORIES:
“HARD”- SIMILAR TO BOXING, POWER IS GENERATED BY THRUSTING OR PUSHING OFF WITH REAR LEG, TORSION OF THE HIPS AND FOLLOW-THROUGH OF THE SHOULDER.
“SOFT” - POWER IS GENERATED BUY SUDDEN “SHAKING” OF THE WAIST, WHOLE BODY “EXPLODES” INTO A POWERFUL STRIKING MOTION, STRIKING PERIPHERAL ( ARM OR LEG) IS RELAXED, SUDDENLY TENSED AND THEN RELAXED AGAIN UPON RECOIL FROM TARGET STRUCK ( SNAPPING MOTION).


TEST PROCEDURE ( DETAILED):

-HEIGHT, WEIGHT and ARM MEASUREMENT ( LENGTH & DIAMETER) OF EACH TEST SUBJECT WILL BE TAKEN AT TIME
OF TESTING.
-THE HANDS OF THE TEST SUBJECTS WILL BE BARE, NO WRAPPING OR PADDED GLOVES WILL BE PERMITTED.
-TEST SUBJECTS WILL BE ALLOWED TO “WARM UP” FOR MAX. 5 MIN.
-CLOSED FIST TECHNIQUES TO BE TESTED:


ALL TEST SUBJECTS: JAB, STRAIGHT ( FRONT & REAR), HOOK (FRONT & REAR), UPPERCUT (FRONT & REAR).
MARTIAL ARTIST: ALSO TEST THE FOLLOWING: BACKFIST (SNAPPING & WHIPPING), PALM HEEL (REAR), KNIFE HAND (FRONT, REAR & DOWN), ELBOW ( ALL DIRECTIONS), RIDGE HAND (REAR).


QUANTITY OF TECHNIQUES:
TEST SUBJECTS SHALL EXECUTE EACH APPLICABLE TECHNIQUE, 5 TIMES.
THE SCORES SHALL BE ADDED UP AND DIVED BY 2 TO REACH AN AVERAGE FOR SPEED AND FORCE.

EQUIPMENT TO BE USED DURING TESTING PROCEDURE:
DIGITAL VIDEO CAMERA
FORCE MEASURING DEVICE

Any suggestions??

PizDoff
10/24/2003 9:31am,
Can I do it? :cool:




NOTE: REASON FOR VARIETY IN THE MARTIAL ARTIST PROFILE:
MARTIAL ARTS STRIKING IS DIVIDED INTO TWO MAIN CATEGORIES:
“HARD”- SIMILAR TO BOXING, POWER IS GENERATED BY THRUSTING OR PUSHING OFF WITH REAR LEG, TORSION OF THE HIPS AND FOLLOW-THROUGH OF THE SHOULDER.
“SOFT” - POWER IS GENERATED BUY SUDDEN “SHAKING” OF THE WAIST, WHOLE BODY “EXPLODES” INTO A POWERFUL STRIKING MOTION, STRIKING PERIPHERAL ( ARM OR LEG) IS RELAXED, SUDDENLY TENSED AND THEN RELAXED AGAIN UPON RECOIL FROM TARGET STRUCK ( SNAPPING MOTION).
Not that I ever bothered to make the distinction, I just like to do both. Any "stlyists" that do both "soft" and "hard" styles of striking?

Ronin
10/24/2003 9:35am,
I'll let you know when the test is being cinducted, Iknow this is a form to fill out.
As for guys doing both "hard" & "soft"...
Beats the hell out of me, I guess they would have to be one or the other. Just to keep it simple.

Ronin
10/24/2003 9:45am,
Studies like this have been done before, but never to COMPARE styles or sizes.
The have usually been done to test safety gear, like head gear and gloves.
This will be a unique test.
Any suggestions?

Ronin
10/24/2003 9:53am,
Good add on, I will forward that to my buddy :)

Deadpan Scientist
10/24/2003 9:58am,
Originally posted by ronin69
QUANTITY OF TECHNIQUES:
TEST SUBJECTS SHALL EXECUTE EACH APPLICABLE TECHNIQUE, 5 TIMES.
THE SCORES SHALL BE ADDED UP AND DIVED BY 2 TO REACH AN AVERAGE FOR SPEED AND FORCE.


He should divide by 5, since there are 5 trials. In addition, standard deviation should be calculated at least.

Ronin
10/24/2003 10:01am,
Actually , I fucked up
:(
That is an "old" version of the test procedure.
They will test 10 tries, get highest and lowest and median.
All 3 values will be posted.

HAPKO3
10/24/2003 10:36am,
Originally posted by ronin69
Actually , I fucked up
:(
That is an "old" version of the test procedure.
They will test 10 tries, get highest and lowest and median.
All 3 values will be posted.

Good stuff.

The only problem with this test is that if your friend has some sort of a personal bias, it is bound to show up in the data. There are two reasons for this. First of all, the samples are too small to be "statistically significant" and since he will know which ones are boxers, which ones are soft stylists, whatever. Because of this, whatever bias he has will unconsciously seep into the data.

In any case, it would be cool to see the results.

Ronin
10/24/2003 10:46am,
I was concerned about HIS baias, he is a boxer.
But the test will be conducted by NON MA types.
It will be hard enough to get 50 of anything, I personally think if he gets 20 of each type, he will be lucky.
Everyone says they can hit, but ask them to show it on test that can actually measure it.... well, you get the picture.
The sheet that the volunters fill out askes th ebackground and name of the gym with phone munber, and it will be verified.
With the boxers it will be easy, with the MA, I am not so sure.

blankslate
10/24/2003 10:49am,
Very cool. The combat world needs more of this. Let us know the results.

Mr. Mantis
10/24/2003 10:52am,
The hard and soft styles can't really be separated out can they? I mean, once you start hitting, striking, with power... Soft becomes hard in application right? I suppose it is possible to find people who only trained in tai chi or something similar, it would seem a difficult task to me though. Would your friend be interested in adding a category for people who have a background in both hard and soft work?

I think this is great!

Ronin
10/24/2003 10:55am,
The soft stylist will be Taiji, Bagua, Xingi.
The theory is that soft stylist hit different than hard, so by comparing we will see if that is so, and if the way they do it is "better", if that is the right word.

Dochter
10/24/2003 11:01am,
Statistical significane of results with his sample size will be more effected by effect size, the power (1- [Prob of Type II error]), and the variation within treatment groups. With that size of a group there is little chance of a type one error (at least that's how it seems to me).

While any test of this sort is difficult to get generality from (i.e. extend to a population as a whole) 25 individuals in each group is a pretty damn good size for any testing done with large mammals.

Of course you can always work with flies and get ridiculously high sample sizes, or with geese ( I know a guy who is able to study 1/4 of an entire population at a time, how's that for sample size and generality).

The Wastrel
10/24/2003 11:13am,
Dochter is correct. It's not like you're conducting national opinion polls.

Ronin
10/24/2003 11:18am,
So the size of the groups seems to be ok?

The Wastrel
10/24/2003 11:25am,
I think so...But I don't do kinesiological research. It seems to me though that the number of measured strikes should be higher. And you have to account for fatigue right?