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Jenfucius
10/10/2003 10:40pm,
i've heard this style mentioned as being a type of judo with a groundfighting emphasis that is similar to BJJ. anyone know if this style is still alive and if it's being used in MMA? does it have any distinguishing characteristics from other groundfighting styles?

Greese
10/10/2003 11:00pm,
From my understanding it is a college form of Judo that was on off shoot from Judo. It is almost identical to BJJ except a greater focus on chokes and less guard.

willy
10/11/2003 4:29am,
if you want more detail look in the bjj=basicly just judo thread in short it is a form of judo where the groundwork rules are relaxed and it looks very similar to bjj

Blad3
10/11/2003 5:36am,
This is Kodokan Judo we're talking about? That's pretty similar to BJJ...

Beneath Contempt
10/11/2003 10:31am,
Kosen was just a university team that specialised in the judo ground techniques. Which is more or less a description of BJJ. Not to be confused with the Kodokan which without doubt, promotes standing technique.

I'd ask the judoinfo people for a better description.

Gezere
10/11/2003 12:05pm,
Kosen Judo is Kodokan Judo set to different rules. It was practices in sevr universities and focuses on ground work. It is said that Maeda was proficient in this method as well which is why BJJ is the way it is.

Deadpan Scientist
10/11/2003 1:37pm,
Where's alter7nate when you need him?

Nihilanthic
10/11/2003 4:51pm,
Where's the damn Kosen Judo schools? :(

<Me> John, what do you know about Zen Buddhism? <John> *smacks me*
<John> I'd have to smack you sometime...

Gezere
10/12/2003 2:59am,
I don't know of any Kosen Schools outside of Japan but since BJJ this Judo has been haveing a resurgence of intrest.

Mercurius
10/12/2003 3:48am,
alter7nate is in Brazil tapping Gracies with Kosen judo techniques that they haven't stolen yet.

NSLightsOut
10/12/2003 8:05am,
From what I've heard, Kosen Judo began in Japan AFTER Maeda arrived in Brazil.

I've also heard that old Kosen Judo footage looks very much, if not exactly like BJJ.

Personally I believe that it is the logical evolution of the art around the rules it trains under. For example, if you take a group of Judoka, change the rules they train for to BJJ rules, odds are that their groundwork will look very much like BJJ, sans techniques not regularly trained by Judoka. However, these too will be discovered in time.

When you place rules around a martial art, the evolution of said art is made to conform to those rules. I doubt anyone will state that the striking abilities of an average, non-cross-training Judoka are equal to those of a Muay Thai fighter. Likewise, I think that everyone will agree that the throwing abilities of a non-cross-trained Muay Thai fighter are equal to those of a Judoka.

Yet Judo has striking techniques, and Muay Thai has throws.

It's all what you emphasise...

Blad3
10/12/2003 8:08am,
It was practiced in several universities and focuses on ground work. It is said that Maeda was proficient in this method as well which is why BJJ is the way it is.

Yeah the Graice actually admit that in general too, although they were careful to call the Kodokan Judo that Maeda knew Japanese Jiu Jitsu. At least that Maeda taught them pure JJJ even though JJJ was exstinct practically even when it was at it's most effective and Kodokan Judo had taken over, and Maeda had been learning that for the past ten years or something (which is another reason why it's utterly ridiculous to do JJJ or any art remotely similar or practically identical to it now, at least for reasons of fighting.)

The Gracies even go as far to say in their history that some of the top Kodokan Judo Japanese fighters were actually the top Japanese Jiu Jitsu fighters.

Anyway BJJ is still very good, proven too. Judo is definitely damn good too though - even the pure sport stuff (Kosen or whatever), let alone the true Kodokan stuff. The fact remains that BJJ has it's own style i.e. it's still more ground orientated that even Kodakan Judo, and probably uses the guard much more. It's quite possibly even the "new" Kodokan Judo if you will.




Edited by - Blad3 on October 12 2003 08:21:26

Gezere
10/12/2003 9:24am,
>At least that Maeda taught them pure JJJ even though JJJ was exstinct practically even when it was at it's most effective and Kodokan Judo had taken over, and Maeda had been learning that for the past ten years or something (which is another reason why it's utterly ridiculous to do JJJ or any art remotely similar or practically identical to it now, at least for reasons of fighting.)


Actually Maeda went to Kano to finish is JJ training. Maeda and Kano had trained the same ryuha, Tenshin Shin'yo, but Maeda was only a novice. Kano thought it would be better for him to learn his Judo (there was another art that was called JUDO the predates Kano by about 300yrs)

>The Gracies even go as far to say in their history that some of the top Kodokan Judo Japanese fighters were actually the top Japanese Jiu Jitsu fighters.

That is true. That is why alot of pple cried foul at the early shiai's between JJ and Judo. They say Kano stacke the deck in his favor.

Beneath Contempt
10/12/2003 1:38pm,
"Stacking the deck" in your favour is a tactic in martial arts competitions (sporting or NHB) that has probably been around for a thousand or more years, and will probably be around for a thousand more.

Kano was nobody's fool, and it doesn't surprise me that he filled his ranks with the best fighters of the time for the early shiai and the Tokyo Met Police shiai. On the other hand, its pretty well documented that those guys went to him. Everyone wants to be on the winning team.

Greese
10/12/2003 5:22pm,
Stacking the deck in your favor...something else the Gracies stole from Judo (see UFC).

elipson
10/12/2003 5:40pm,
(which is another reason why it's utterly ridiculous to do JJJ or any art remotely similar or practically identical to it now, at least for reasons of fighting.)
Blade, you are an arrogant idiot.