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Urbanus1234
7/24/2007 2:41pm,
I just finished reading the Tao of Jeet Kun Do. My purpose for reading this book was to try and understand what Bruce Lee was trying to accomplish (not to learn the "style" of JKD...utterly stupid idea) but I ended up with more questions than answers. For example, when he says:

"I'm moving and not moving at all. I'm like the moon underneath the waves that ever go on rolling and rocking. It is not, "I am doing this," but rather, an inner realization that "this is happening to me," or "it is doing this for me." The consciousness of self is the greatest hindrance to the proper execution of all physical action."

It really shut my brain down. I was like "Whoa, that's deep son". At best, what I can gather from the book is that Bruce advocated some kind of unthinking action, movement that didn't require any thought or effort...I think. In the words of Jack Sparrow, can anyone lend a machete to my intellectual thicket?

new2bjj
7/24/2007 2:56pm,
Bruce Lee was a philosophy major, and basically, loved to prattle on. Look up autonomic response. Any decent boxing coach will tell you it's better to have automatic, trained responses, he just won't make it sound like you've reached enlightment when you do so. If all that psycho babble about truth in combat were true, Mike Tyson would be the Bodhisattva.

Devil
7/24/2007 2:59pm,
The idea of "mushin no shin" is not something Bruce Lee created. It's a pretty standard idea in traditional arts. Ninjers like to call it "being in the moment".

I suppose it has some validity - the idea that you act without conscious thought. I just don't think it's that big of a deal. People over intellectualize fighting. Bruce Lee was no exception. Fighting is really not that "deep". Step up, hit the fucker in the chin, and go home. More training, less talking.

leere_form
7/24/2007 3:07pm,
this might be of some little assistance:

http://www.themystica.com/mystica/articles/a/anatta.html

or here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatman

and paradoxically, i think you want to avoid trying to "understand it" or intellectualize/verbalize it in order to instead.. experience it. i think bruce would say... just go train.

i think a lot of bruce's philosophy was centered around the attainment of that state of no-self and fluid action through a lack of self-consciousness and a lack of ambient thought.

see also: arthur schopenhauer's thoughts on aesthetic contemplation, jiddu krishnamurti's "freedom from the known," and just about anything on zen..

krishnamurti particularly influenced bruce, which you may have noticed in TOJKD.. freedom from the known is definitely worth a read or two, imho..

Devil
7/24/2007 3:11pm,
see also: arthur schopenhauer's thoughts on aesthetic contemplation, jiddu krishnamurti's "freedom from the known," and just about anything on zen..

.


Yeah, either that, or hit the fucker in the chin.

Urbanus1234
7/24/2007 3:19pm,
Thanks guys. I'll look into that stuff. Good idea Devil, maybe i'll try out Bruce's "On Gaurd" posistions and techniques to see what he was talking about.

leere_form
7/24/2007 3:20pm,
yeah, yeah, it all comes down to hitting the fucker in the chin...

Devil
7/24/2007 3:24pm,
yeah, yeah, it all comes down to hitting the fucker in the chin...

At last, you have seen the path to true enlightenment.

Wolf
7/24/2007 3:58pm,
Moved from bs.org discussion. History related articles go HERE NOW NOT BS.ORG DISCUSSION!

Lebell
7/24/2007 5:42pm,
"I'm moving and not moving at all. I'm like the moon underneath the waves that ever go on rolling and rocking. It is not, "I am doing this," but rather, an inner realization that "this is happening to me," or "it is doing this for me." The consciousness of self is the greatest hindrance to the proper execution of all physical action."



It's also called like the moon reflected on the water.
Zen bushism uses it, its also called 'stabbing the man who came to kill you with his own spear'.

Moon reflects on the water: It's your intention, your mind, if your opponent wants to strike against it, he will only hit the water, after the wrinkles are gone and even during the wrinkles in the water the moon is still reflected.
It is on the water yet it is not, for your opponent it seems this way.

Simply said: natural reactions, so yeah go and hit him on the chin and train.

If you really like to read about it: most guys know the book of the 5 spheres/rings by Musashi, few people know that the guy he was corrosponding with was a Zen priest called Takuan Soho, he taught Musashi about the mindset and psychology of Zen which Musashi incorporated.


Takuan Soho-the unfettered mind.
here you go: http://www.amazon.com/Unfettered-Mind-Writings-Master-Sword/dp/087011851X

Zendetta
7/24/2007 6:35pm,
aka "the Zone"

Tango M.F.
7/24/2007 6:38pm,
Just a note regarding your thread topic - The "Tao" in Tao of Jeet Kun Do should be differentiated from Taoism. He uses "Tao" as the general word for "way." His philosophy has more to do with Zen (or Ch'an) Buddhism than actual Taoism, although Zen itself is highly influenced by Taoism.

If you're interested in this avenue of philosophy check out Musashi's book of five rings or the martial Tao Te Ching (Tao of war) for more information.

Although, I should be point out that while these books are interesting, neither book will probably make you a better fighter, but they may change how you view combat.

Cullion
7/24/2007 7:23pm,
I just finished reading the Tao of Jeet Kun Do. My purpose for reading this book was to try and understand what Bruce Lee was trying to accomplish (not to learn the "style" of JKD...utterly stupid idea) but I ended up with more questions than answers. For example, when he says:

"I'm moving and not moving at all. I'm like the moon underneath the waves that ever go on rolling and rocking. It is not, "I am doing this," but rather, an inner realization that "this is happening to me," or "it is doing this for me." The consciousness of self is the greatest hindrance to the proper execution of all physical action."

It really shut my brain down. I was like "Whoa, that's deep son". At best, what I can gather from the book is that Bruce advocated some kind of unthinking action, movement that didn't require any thought or effort...I think. In the words of Jack Sparrow, can anyone lend a machete to my intellectual thicket?

Bruce was not only a philosophy major, but a stoner. Not kidding.

The_Tao
7/24/2007 7:31pm,
That doesn't surprise me. Not at all.

Zendetta
7/24/2007 8:01pm,
Good post Tango!

Apparently Bruce introduced Steve McQueen to the Whacky Tobakky.

new2bjj
7/24/2007 8:57pm,
Good post Tango!

Apparently Bruce introduced Steve McQueen to the Whacky Tobakky.
Wrong, it was the other way around. Steve McQueen was doing drugs before he met Bruce. Sadly, he wasn't just smoking a little pot, but a big pill head. It actually had a heavy toll on him- watch the Bio on AE some time.