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hl1978
7/17/2007 1:24pm,
Does anyone else work on puching from the heel rather than pushing off the toes?

If you watch rampage jackson's last fight, its clear someone had him change his footwork compared to his last fight, as he was punching from the rear heel, and it seemed to work pretty good against Chuck Liddell.

Looking at it from a statics/body mechanics perspective it makes more sense as you have more surface area on the ground to distribute the weight/force that goes back into you. With a stronger base you can deliver more power into your target. I've tried it against a heavy bag and it seems to work better.

So anyone else have experence with this? If so, how do you train it?

Do you feel it is worth any trade off versus mobility? Jackson still seemed able to move around quite well.

see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMQM1JkxL4U

Torakaka
7/17/2007 2:02pm,
say what? Where do you get this idea from that he's punching from the heel? He was fairly flat footed, but saying he's pushing off from the heel sounds a little out there to me.

Invader_Chris
7/17/2007 2:05pm,
I'd have to watch the fight again but from everything I've ever seen you get much more power by keeping your heel slightly off the ground and using the ball of your foot to push off. But then who am I to argue with Rampage? :P

hl1978
7/17/2007 2:09pm,
say what? Where do you get this idea from that he's punching from the heel? He was fairly flat footed, but saying he's pushing off from the heel sounds a little out there to me.

While he throws very few punches, and does step very flat footed, his heel does not appear to lift off the ground when he strikes. If it was from the toes, you would have to push from the ball of the foot. That is why I termed it from the heel.

WhiteShark
7/17/2007 2:17pm,
The shot that puts Chuck down is a hook. There is no way he's throwing that from the heel.

hl1978
7/17/2007 2:19pm,
The shot that puts Chuck down is a hook. There is no way he's throwing that from the heel.

unfortunatey we can't see the rear leg on that shot.

none the less, what about punching from the heel in general, has anyone else tried it against a heavy bag etc.

ojgsxr6
7/17/2007 2:21pm,
Is this one of those weird Aiki Ju Jitsu, body structure things?

Anna Kovacs
7/17/2007 2:21pm,
Sounds like it would result in more push then pop. if your heel is planted you cant really turn your hip, if you cant turn your hip then you are wrong.

hl1978
7/17/2007 2:29pm,
Is this one of those weird Aiki Ju Jitsu, body structure things?

Yep.

It is one of the things that I was discussing with Upyu while in japan. While there is a twisting motion inside the body, same side coodination is a bit more stressed so you don't have as much of a hip twist like in a traditional karate reverse punch etc.

On a side note I was disapointed that the shooto guys didnt show up while I was there (and I did it last minute so I didn't get to set up a throwdown with the tokyo guys), but I guess there is always next time.

Ryno
7/17/2007 3:30pm,
Just watched the video and his foot is cropped out of the frame, but from the angle of his lower leg (forward), and the flexed calf, I'd say he was on the ball of his right foot when he throws the right hook.

I believe that initially Rampage looks so flat footed because he is leaning back a bit, forcing Chuck to step in closer to land a shot. I have no doubt that Jackson was doing this to set up a takedown. Chuck is not much of a kicker, so Rampage plays a smart game by leaning back, even though he could get drilled by a leg kick. He is trying to keep his head clear, but minimize the amount of space that he'll need to cover if he drops levels to shoot.

After re-re-watching the vid, notice that as they come close to being in range, Rampage leans back to keep his head clear. As he pursues, or considers attacking, his head and shoulders bob forward quickly. He definitely bobs forward when he lands that hook, making me thing that he is not flat footed.

SuperGuido
7/17/2007 3:42pm,
In Shito-Ryu, we would get smacked if our heel wasn't firmly planted on the ground during punches.

They told us the idea was to firmly ground yourself into the earth upon making impact with the target...which I guess is supposed to prevent you from rebounding after a strike without penetrating into the target.

Honestly, I found that it shortened the length of the punch considerably, since you can't get full hip/shoulder rotation into the strike without pulling the heel off the ground. As such, it tends to create a "Punching in a Box" feeling concerning range.

Permalost
7/17/2007 3:59pm,
I know people that work the makiwara a lot that can punch hard as hell, and they always keep the heel down. Howoever, the main way power is generated is not really related to having the heel down. There's actually a pivot on the ball of the foot to rotate the hips, then the heel digs into the ground. There's usually also a shuffling forward motion and pulling the other half of the body back to a chambered position.

alex
7/17/2007 4:08pm,
sounds like bollocks to me and if i wanted to learn how to throw strong punches i would be talking to tyson not rampage

Vieux Normand
7/17/2007 4:27pm,
If you heel-punch, you can still get some hip-turn...just not as much. Flexibility is restricted. You're also giving up the force added by the back heel pushing off the ground, an action caused by the contraction of the calf muscle. This means you're leaving that muscle out of the total cumulative force behind the motion, leaving the other muscles involved to do all the work. That said, one can KO still people from heels-on-the-ground punches, and there may be some who--for reasons of their own--prefer the greater base of support. Hard to imagine that this view would be very common among strikers, though.

Vieux Normand
7/17/2007 4:29pm,
Doubled up on the post. Sorry.

OZZ
7/17/2007 9:51pm,
You can still generate plenty of power if your heel is firmly planted...I think a lot depends on the type of punch you are throwing and whether you have developed short power or not.